thought i'd waid in since no one likes wussy music like me...
seems like there are 3 points here for me;
1) "buying into the emotion" a topic much discussed by us , but I think it is the core of the issue wether male or female singers. dont know what makes it work for some and not others ( I actually like some of Sarah Mclauglins music and Brian has hated her for years)..
2) I never thought of the guitar vs piano aspect, but I do believe it is harder to come off "real" when playing piano as some you point out...hardly seems fair given it is just the instrument, but I guess like black tower wine...once a bad taste gets lots of airplay (think -you light up my life for instance -debbie boone or any bad 70's piano ballads)its hard for serious drinkers to get back in tha game - hense the good prise of alsatian reislings these days...
3) I think its imprtant to seperate band songwritters ( Bjork, Pat Benetar, Kate Bush)vs singer songwritters because I see the complexities of Bjorks music for instance putting her in a completely different catagory .... as far as true singer songwritters ( early joni mitchell, sandy denny, june tabor, or current Chan marshall,Julie Doiron (i bought her last album last winter -love it- ) or say Aimee mann or Natalie Merchant...all of this some of my most favorite music -piano based -
and totally honest no ironic stance at all....just goes to show ya ...whatever the hell my point was?????

Tough call. I think the expression of emotion is at the core of good art (Coltrane, punk, Pollock, Beethoven, you name it), so what we're really disliking - and I agree wholeheartedly about the singers you mentioned - is the particular idiom. I was saying just the other day that I have a limited appetite for the singer/songwriter genre, and I think that's what it boils down to. And yes, for me, moreso female singer/songwriters. There's nothing as nauseating as hearing Sarah Mclaughlin lauded for writing material ostensibly so "close to the bone", when to me it sounds like yuppy romantic drivel. Thank GOD she seems to have stopped producing hits.

I think the reason we bristle is what we're hearing, or not hearing more accurately, is true and real expression, so we're not buying it. Doesn't necessarily apply to all females s/s's - I connect better with PJ Harvey, though I don't always love her music - but there are few exceptions. And the ones that we like tend to be tougher, and more male in their expression.

As an aside, the same can't be said for jazz singers, interestingly, where the melancholy milieu works brilliantly for me.

I do keep dabbling in female s/s's, with only modest success - downloaded some Laura Veirs tunes in the early new year after she was well reviewed, which are squarely in the "not bad" category, and have recently discovered and quite enjoy Julie Doiron's music (she of Eric's Trip), which has been around for years. Any exceptions for the rest of you?

Listening to the latest edition of NPR's All Songs Considered the other day a similar point was raised when they got around to playing a snippet from the new Joanna Newsom CD. There were 4 or 5 people in the discussion as they were previewing the best of the new fall releases and the divide between them on Newsom and others of her ilk was quite stark. They either loved or loathed her.

As much as I enjoyed Newsom's debut CD on the first 3 or 4 spins I really haven't touched it since. Same thing happened with Tori Amos' "Under the Pink" CD of about 10 years back and with Fiona Apple's debut "Tidal". A few spins then filed away to gather dust. The panel on the show also threw Kate Bush into the mix but I'd say she's had a much more varied output than the 3 women above.

Does the impatience with this sort of music have anything to do with the fact that Apple and Amos play the piano and Newsom the harp? We're much less inclined to vent when someone like Elliott Smith or Sufjan Steven get all maudlin on our ass.

I'm not sure it's really a female-male issue (as Haines seems to state) though as I'm just as impatient with songsmiths like Damien Rice, Ryan Adams or even Conner Oberst at times because like you said Kyle "yes, we get that you're in pain" now shut the fuck up.

I think for me as well it also comes down to the simple fact that over a 4 or 5 record span (as much as most performers will ever release) a group of talented musicians will almost always win out over a solo perfomer in complexity, variety and freshness of sound.

Apropos of nothing (and aren't you ready to just frickin hate anything that comes next when I start a post this way)....I'm really digging the new Emily Haines disc and may burn a copy for others to play at next week's CD club, which I will not be able to attend.

I especially like this quote from Pitchfork (which references another article):

"I really don't relate to the female singer-songwriter," Haines said in a recent Under the Radar interview. "You're all precious and everyone has to hush while you go over the shadows of your emotions. I've always hated that."

Amen. While there's something to be said for beautiful songwriting, and the often beautiful songwriters who appear front and centre, in billowing white dresses with whispy, wind-blown hair, on the covers of all the cds they put out, I've always found artists like Tori Amos and Fiona Apple a tad off-putting by their, for lack of a better word, histrionics. Yes, it's admirable when artists are willing to put their emotions out there but I think this sometimes is considered an achievement in itself, without a consideration as to whether or not the resulting music is any good. ie. I get that you're in pain but I'm not feeling the vibe.

Am I way off the mark? Please feel free to either put me in my place or stroke my ego.

Well, just imagine how good round two will be now, after the inevitable disappointment of round one. Har har.

That was only round one Brian.

Great. You completely shut me out. 0 for 3. Or was it 4? My choices were carefully considered and unique, not just the same old "Monk, Coltrane, Mingus" nonsense.

I may have to go for a beer at McV's to get over this....

Thanks for the advice guys. I decided to go for Tenor Madness by Rollins, Brilliant Corners by Monk and Mingus Ah Um. I'll be re-checking the suggestions when I'm ready for more.

I think the only week night Im no good for is friday the 13th (in october)

Rob, I seem to recall from past conversations that you have explored jazz somewhat, so you'll likely know a bunch of the names being thrown around in our Top 50's.....but at the risk of recommending some obvious stuff, and given your plea for melody, I'll put a couple of names out there for you. First off, early-mid sixties Dexter Gordon is can't miss ("Doin' Allright", "Go", "Our Man in Paris", a few others), plus same period Hank Mobley is among the best of the beat-based Hard Bop movement (I love "No Room for Squares" but others point to "Soul Station", "Straight no Filter" and "Workout as his best - fact is they're all very good). In terms of piano music, my obvious favourite is Bill Evans, and he practically reinvented melody on piano (try Moonbeams, Portait in Jazz, Sunday at the Village Vanguard, or Exploration), but of the many many others, I'd start with McCoy Tyner's "The Real McCoy", which has the benefit of the outstanding Joe Henderson playing beautifully on the tenor.

Re our CD Club meeting, Kyle and I went off-line and he said that we should go ahead and book a night and he will come if he can...he schedule is pretty ugly for the next couple of months. Given that, can we look at mid-October again? I'd be good generally for the week of the 9-13th, or 16-20th (though the Thursday of that week is probably the next book club).

Hey Rob, welcome. I’m not sure if you picked up on the top 50 Jazz list we are composing on the blog. The idea is that we all nominate our (up to) 50 “favourite” (for whatever reason we feel fit) jazz recordings of all time. At the end of the year we will finalize the vote and I will compile a list.

That having been said, if you dig back in the blog archives over the past couple months you can check out some of our nominations. I would say that there is nary a harsh note in any of my top 20 posted on Sept 4th. I personally feel that you can’t go wrong with any of them; but then of coarse that’s why I put them on MY list!

If you can find a copy, I would particularly recommend Toshinori Kondo & Dj Krush – Ki-Oku. Modern beats mixed with some stellar Milesesque horn playing by Kondo. Still make me feel good every time I throw it on… think I’ll go back to the house and grab my copy now ….combat the grey sky within!

Sonny Rollins - tenor madness....my favorite sax blowing session....Monk Brilliant corners ....songwritting.....Coltrane Love supreme, my favorite jazz album of all time, we have also spent the best part of the year trying to make a top 50 jazz albums of all time list, but it has been somewhat sporadic,

On a seperate note, on this day of matrimonial bliss , I thought maybe we should have a list of you know...." we're going to the chaa-pel and we're ...goin to get mar, ar,aried, yes we're going to the chapel of love" ......you know....best wedding songs of all time ( heres to you Derek and May....) damned if I can think of any others, but there must be some....??

Thanks for the welcomes guys. Stu, didn't you sleep on the sidewalk outside Cheapies to be first in line for that Asia album?

I'm surprised Boys In The Bright White Sports Car wasn't mentioned. Sure, there's more than a hint of nostalgia to liking any of that stuff, but I gotta confess that I still find that choking guitar solo pretty tasty, if derivative. (Paul Kossoff, Carlos Santana...see Kyle? I can do pretentious just fine.)

Okay boys, how about a little assignment to help the new guy out; what three jazz albums would you suggest an almost-neophyte pick up to begin filling out a tres sparse jazz collection. And please, a touch of melody. I already have some Soft Machine and Beefheart.

Sorry guys. Just realized I have a previous commitment (annual hockey pool draft) early that same week. So back to square one.... Kyle, which days are you actually available in october?

I fear we're headed into a discussion of Asia's "Heat of the Moment". Should that occur, I may have to dynamite the blog entirely.

Welcome, Rob! Don't be intimidated by any of our comments. Ten minutes of listening at sites like BetterPropaganda and Insound and a good thesaurus will have you sounding as pretentious as the rest of us in no time.

Welcome Rob.

OK let's go with October 2nd. I haven't checked with my gatekeeper but I'm (just) man enough to commit without requiring permission (and hope for the best).

Re Trooper, for me it's always been about "We're Here for a Good Time" and "Two For the Show" (although Santa Maria is equally fine). Which reminds me, why does no one talk about Prism? Why is it always Trooper? It's not right. "Spaceship Superstar" was quite inspiring when I was thirteen, and "Armageddon", equally anthemic.

I figured there was no point in throwing my 2 cents worth into the mix as long as we're still waiting for Brian and Kyle to cement a date that all can live with. I'm fairly flexible with any date in October at this point so I will leave it in the capable hands of the rest of you.

monday oct 2 is good for me.....I think Brian and Derek still have their heads stuck in the film festival to confirm thats ok...as for trooper, all I have to say is that at this blogsite ...round round we go to raise a little hell ...so to speak ( OK thats really lame...apologies)..."santa maria" is the song that does it for me from them...

Thanks for the invite guys, although after a quick look around I fear I may be out of my league. Doesn't anyone listen to Trooper anymore?

I've linked both to the new Yo La Tengo album and David Cross in the past and I will do so again now, because I found this review of their new album, released only yesterday, to be very funny.

You may agree. You may disagree. You may completely ignore the invitation to blog here, causing Stuart and Brian to look like major liars. You may, in fact be drunk, sitting at a bar, but still alert enough to make use of this temporarily free wifi thing in the city. At any rate, enjoy.

mon oct 2nd works for me but i think Brian might be out of commission for that week...Brian?

Monday October 2nd is the only early in the week date that is looking promising for me right now, which I know is a kind of crap night to listen to music and have a few beers. Of course, it might be fun to have something to look forward to on a Monday night. Hope it works for some of you. Again, if not, no worries.

To those who are new to the blog or have received the invitation to post and are a little apprehensive about taking the plunge, let me posit a question.

What are your top 5/10 'best/most effective' uses of music in a movie? It can be use of a song (ie. Dick Dale's 'Misirlou' in the opening credits of Pulp Fiction) or just most moving score (ie. Morricone's soundtrack for 'The Mission'). I'll come up with some better answers myself but you get the drift. Look forward to you joining us here!

Kyle, are there any beginning-of-the-week dates in October that you can do? I can’t bear the thought of a club meeting without you!

Brian, forgive me, but does not the presence of your mother in law make it a good week for another excuse to get out of the house?

kyle, would any beginning-of-the week dates work for you in October?

my schedule is almost completely booked for october so none of those dates work for me. i'd suggest you go this one without me.

brian, digging the kingsbury manx, which you brought to the last club and which i recently downloaded from emusic. for other emusic people out there, i recommend a band called Maritime, whose 'We, the Vehicles' album is pretty good, as is the Submarines 'Declare a New State!', which is steadily growing on me.

also, i've been really digging, perhaps overselling, the new M. Ward disc, a recent release and available on emusic as well. i'd really only downloaded the odd song by him in the past and i know that one of you (brian, derek) brought one of his discs to a meeting recently so i'm going to have to revisit some of his previous discs as well.

I have my mother in law visiting from Oz for that week....I'd prefer to look at the Thursday the 13th if that works for others.

im good for either date

Actually, Kyle, my offer for a “listening party” was in response to Brian’s query of when the next “cd club meeting” was; a term you all know I am loath to use because, in fact, I am a snob! …but I like the idea of a jazz night as well.

Starting with the cd club, how would October thurs 5th or fri 6th work for people? or earlier in the week if need be. …or following week?

Perhaps it is I who should be explaining himself! Now while I’m sure that Brian is simply thinking that I am merely trying to be my usual wanker self, and Derek is sure to think I am taking the piss, I assure you I am not; maybe. It is interesting to make a list of this type because it all depends on what your criteria are as to where something ends up on a list or if it ends up there at all.

Now, while it might well be argued that Nightmares on Wax is not even Jazz, it can not be argued that I, (rightly or wrongly) consider that it belongs to one of the genres that jazz has evolved into and is in itself acid jazzesque.

To suggest that Carboot Soul is actually more important, more significant or any way better than A Love Supreme is unequivocally absurd. The list is a snapshot of the jazz that I love most at a given moment in time (1:48am), and what I find intriguing is that given that, it might look completely different in three months time. I can honestly say that throwing on Carboot Soul gives me marginally more pleasure than listening to A Love Supreme. …and isn’t pleasure what it’s all about?

Btw, does any body have my copy of Carboot Soul? I seem to have lost it and actually need to listen to it to refresh my memory of it... I don't really remember it that well.

Fresh legs, posters are always welcome. Please extend this invitation to Rob, Greg, Mike, Dick, Harry, Jane, Cubby, Binky, Small Bob, Big Bob, and anyone else who would like to contribute to this space. You can either post post or email me their contact information so I can send them an invite.

Also, with the TIFF upon us, let me invite you all to share you comments at our September-only sister site Toronto Filmfestiblog. This year the official TIFF website has links to various blogs and I've submitted ours for linkage so this could be your chance to shine in front of a wider audience.

I like Marc's suggestion for getting together and playing some of this music on the list but September is a bad month...perhaps sometime in October. Marc, I noticed that you have Brian's #1 pick in your top 10 but Brian doesn't have Nightmares on Wax anywhere in his Top 40. Brian, care to explain this omission on you part?

Marc - good to see you back on the blog, (a) to provide your input on the jazz list, and (b) to comfort Stuart, who was lonely. Life can be tough when you under-appreciate fantastic music from iconic sixties bands, as Stuart is discovering.

Over the past couple of months in various conversations I mentioned the blog to a few of my buddies (who will be familiar to most of you - Greg, Gerald, and Mike Charbonneau), and there was some interest on their part. Stuart, I know you had thoughts of inviting Rob McGoogan.....how does everyone feel about opening the space up a little bit?

Ah yes, my much neglected Jazz list. I had suggested this exercise in large part because I was interested in becoming more familiar with the great jazz recordings . For me, the making of the list has only served to underline just how little I know about Jazz (or anything for that matter) and how much there is to learn.

As I had suggested, I would like to at some point tabulate the results, just for the hell of it, but first, I would like to give a good solid listen to some of the other nominations. I have managed to tackle several of them, but I must admit that I find the Jazz is a genre that takes a while for new it’s new experiences to marinate and make it to a favourites list.

I will spend the next several months making a concerted effort to dig a little deeper and would hope that my final vote might look a little different by the end of the fall. For what it’s worth, here are my top 40.

40. ‘The Mercury Song Book’ 100 Jazz Vocal Classics – 1995
39. ‘The Verve Story’ 1944 – 1994
38. John Coltrane – My Favourite Things
37. John Coltrane – Blue Trane
36. Stan Getz & Charlie Byrd –­ Jazz Samba
35. Brad Mehldau – Art of the Trio
34. Billie Holiday – Lady’s Decca Days
33. Grant Green – Alive
32. Bill Evans – Live at the Village Vangard
31. Coltrane – Coltrane Time - 1958
30. Miles Davis – Bitches Brew – 1969
29. Next up is Duke Ellington - ‘S.R.O.’
28. Miles Davis – Birth of Cool
27. Charlie Parker & Dizzie Gillespie - Bird and Diz
26. Charles Mingus – The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady
25. Thelonious Monk with John Coltrane at Carnegie Hall
24. John Coltrane – The complete Africa Sessions
23. Art Tatum – ‘Tea for Two’ 1945
22. Ornett Coleman – Shape of Jazz to Come
21. Oscar Peterson Trio – Night Train
20. Herbie Hancock – Empyrean Isles
19. Freddie Hubbard – Anthology 66-82 Soul Brother Records
18. Grant Green – Solid
17. Miles Davis – In a Silent Way
16. Charles Mingus – Mingus Ah Um
15. Bill Evans Trio – Waltz for Debbie
14. Duke Ellington – Ellington Live At Newport Jazz Festival 1965
13. Stan Getz & Joao Gilberto – Gilberto /Getz
12. Art Blakey – A Night at Birdland
11. Bugge Wesseltoft – New Conception of Jazz, FiLM iNG
10. John Coltrane – A Love Supreme
9. Nighmares on Wax – Carbout Soul
8. ‘The Jazz Scene’ – Verve 1994
7. Kieth Jarrett – The Koln Concert
6. Miles Davis – Sketches of Spain
5. Toshinori Kondo & Dj Krush – Ki-Oku
4 .Charles Mingus – Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus
3. Miles Davis – Kind of Blue
2. Modern Jazz Quartet – European Concert Volume 2.
1. Dave Brubeck Quartet. ‘Time Out’ (1959)

Listening party @ my place? ...End of September? a Friday?

And boys, belatedly, here is the list of what we all played at the last CD club:

Kyle
Thom Yorke - Eraser
Quantic Sould Orchestra - Pushin On
Cibelle - The Shine of the Electric Dead Leaves (2006) and Self titled (2003)
The Deadly Snakes - Porcella

Derek
The Islands - Return to the Sea
Manu Katche - Neighbourhood
Nomo - New Tones
Enrique Caruso - The Complete Recordings Vol 6

Marc
Grupo Fantasma - Movimiento Popular
Gnarls Barkley - St. Elsewhere
Ocote Soul Sounds - Adrian Quesada
Jamaica to Toronto - 1967 - 74
Built to Spill - Latest

Stuart
Band of Horses
Oliver Schroer - Camino
Arthur Russell - The World of...

Brian
Eric Matthews - Six Kinds of Passion Looking for an Exit
The Microphones - The Glow part 2
Eleventh Dream Day - Zeroes and Ones
Kingsbury Manx - The Fast Rise and Fall of the South
The Young People - All at Once

So when is the next one?

Stu, thanks for the update. Inspiring stuff.

OK, moving right along, here are my top ten jazz picks:

(10) Miles Davis - Milestones (1959)
(9) John Coltrane - The Complete Africa Brass Sessions (1960)
(8) Bill Evans - Portait in Jazz (1961)
(7) Lee Morgan - Search for the New Land (1964)
(6) Hank Mobley - No Room For Squares (1964)
(5) Wayne Shorter - Night Dreamer (1964)
(4) Sarah Vaughan with Clifford Brown (1957)
(3) McCoy Tyner - The Real McCoy (1967)
(2) Bill Evans - Moonbeams (1964)
(1) Miles Davis - Kind of Blue (1958)

Notables that somehow got squeezed out, but could easily have been right at the top (this list making ain't so easy)....Mingus - Ah Um; Joe Lovano - For the Soul; Bill Evans - Interplay; Coltrane - A Love Supreme; Andrew Hill - Black Fire, and finally, Oliver Nelson - The Blues and the Abstract Truth.

well since I am the only person on metabeats Ive made a unilateral decision to turn this site into my own personal webpage, and I will be making daily comments on my life for your benefit and intellectual fulfillment so in that light....

day 1
Sept 01... I woke up today and I thought.... gosh ...its going to be a really positive day for me... I feel really good about things now and I just wanted to share that with you all

my lists below total 43, so I will add my final 7 and reorder them in order for you shortly....

Jazz list
Below is my previous picks , but with the fascist brian Doyle rules for vinyle toofers applied....this totals 31 picks

Steve Colman -Resistence is Futile
Anita oday-Cool heat
Frank Sinatra - The wee small hours
Getz Gilberto- Getz Gilberto
Shepp & Waldron- Left alone revisited
Jim Hall - Concerto de Aranjez (spelling ??)
McCoy Tyner -the real McCoy
Miles Davis's score (Ascenseur pour l’échafaud )
Miles Davis - Cooking
Miles davis- Relaxin
Miles davis - kind of blue
Wayne Shorter ...Speak no evil
Louis Armstrong meets Oscar Peterson
Monk- -Theolonius monk trio (prestige)
Monk- Monk w sonny Rollins(prestige)
Monk- Monk- alone in san francisco (riverside)
Monk - Brilliant corners
Monk- Monk & Coltrane at carnegie hall
Oliver nelson- the blues and the abstract truth
Blossum Dearie- Once upon a summertime
Sonny Stitt, Sonny Rollins, Dizzie Gillespie- Sonny Side up
Coltrane-Love supreme
Hancock-maiden Voyage
Billy Holiday-Lady sings the blues
Keith jarett-Koln Concert
Bud Powell-Amazing Bud Powell on blue note volumes 1
Bud Powell-Amazing Bud Powell on blue note volumes 2
Ben Webster and Joe Zawinul-Soulmates
Sonny Rollins-Tenor madness
Sonny Rollins-Saxophone Colossus
Dextor Gorden-Go

Moving on from here I add the following

Miles davis- miles smiles
John Coltrane- Giant steps
john Coltrane- my favorite things
Chet Baker- chet
cannonball Adderly- something else
Mingus-mingus mingus mingus
Mingus- ah um
Bill evans trio -portrait in jazz
sarah vaughn- lullaby of birdland
Dexter Gorden - getting around
The greatest jazz concert ever ( at massey hall)
Duke Ellington - the blanton webster years ( this is a comp but there was no original album as it is from so long ago)

item 3) sixties list....well i hate to say it, but Brian you have pretty much nailed my thoughts on it, and while I tend to want to make sure the main bands are covered , (even while it is a list of songs , not bands), I think they did get out of shape on it as you point out ....so being a lazy ass, and since you did most of my work for me, Ill quibble with your account rather then theirs.....I agree that the beatles should be way ahead of the rest in song count, Id have to put Dylan and the stones a much closer tie for 2nd ( so if you give the beatles 15, to 20 give dylan and the stones 10 to 15 each, at least thats my personal reality....I could pick those songs for you but im getting damn sick of lists for some reason now and Ill let you all chose your own fucking songs. I just dont get the beach boys knighting in the press at all and to a lesser degree ray davies...they simply are not even in 3rd or 4th place for me .....not even close, but again lists ........ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

ahhhhhhhhh...too many lists.....ok so I need closure on some of these outstanding issues....The love decapo debate.....- so Brian if you admit that side 2 is a failed experiment, then for you to consider this albnum so highly the songs on side 1 must rank as exceptional to compensate for the failed single song experiment on the flipside...I have listened to those songs repeatedly over the last 3 weeks and while I have always thought half of them to be quite good ( Orange skies, Ique Vido, she comes in colours) I have never thought that the side as a whole was exceptional. So by my math 1/2 of 1/2 an album = 25 percent of the record being quite good...
I have so many other albums that meet this standard that if this was my benchmark for a great album I would concider most of my collection to apply....In short, you are wrong once again....2)my jass list : to be completed very soon

Yet another interesting list to review.....and so I will, but first a couple of more thoughts on the sixties list.

I did a quick count of how many times some of the major artists appear on the list, and was interested to see that each of The Kinks, The Stones, The Beatles, The Velvets, The Beach Boys, and Dylan are each given five songs. Simon and Garfunkel and The Who were good for four appearances, and Led Zeppelin (from its first two records only) and The Zombies were there three times.

It reinforced a thought I had as I read through in increasing frustration, that the list was done almost on a quota basis, to ensure that they couldn't be accused of missing the big names, but also to create room to over-emphasize the P/F critical darlings of the moment (far beyond their merit in my view), who would appear to be the Beach Boys and the Kinks. So, I may as well just say it, I think the Beatles probably deserve ten to fifteen spots on the list, not just for their genre busters that P/F has chosen like Eleanor Rigby, I Wanna Hold Your Hand, Tomorrow Never Knows, I am the Walrus (a terrible choice in my opinion), but more importantly for the songs that they wrote and played better than anybody at the time or likely since. Early period stuff like She Loves You, Please Please Me, All My Loving, Can't Buy Me Love, slightly later stuff like Hard Day's Night, I Feel Fine, And I Love Her, If I Fell, Eight Days a Week, Help, Ticket to Ride, Hide Your Love Away, mid-period gems like Norwegian Wood, Nowhere Man, In My Life, Michelle, I'm Looking Through You, Yesterday (the most covered song in the history of music, incidentally), Day Tripper, Paperback Writer, almost any freaking song off of Revolver (and to be fair they chose two), and the psychedelic era stuff (Day in the Life is there thank God) like Strawberry Fields, Penny Lane (which I personally think exemplifies Brit pop best of all to this day), All You Need is Love, Fool on the Hill, and late period classics like Hey Jude, Come Together, Something, Here Comes the Sun, Across the Universe, and Let it Be. Just to name a few. I'm sure y'all have your own favourites, and I'm sure that not all of you agree, but in my view no band has ever written and performed so many songs of such magnificence. All in seven years. Incredible. Any sixties list should be laced with the Beatles, literally stuffed with them. They changed the rules forever and for everybody. And yet, apparently The Kinks, The Beach Boys, and even the Velvet Underground had as many songs that needed to be on the list (Dylan and the Stones I'm OK with, though I argue with the choices). I absolutely love the Kinks and VU (more on the Beach Boys in a minute) but come on....what utter nonsense.

So someone please help me with the concept of the Beach Boys as the best / most important band of the sixties. I'm serious - help.
I get that they explored innocence and loss, that they therefore captured a particular zeitgeist, that their vocal arrangements are out of this world, but it stops there for me. Definitely a top twenty band of the sixties for BD. No question. But I truly doubt that the BB's were listened to as seriously or as widely at the time (particularly not the Pet Sounds period, which was after they were at their most popular) as the Beatles, Stones, or Dylan, they participated in none of the defining musical events of the sixties, and many of the songs have dated terribly in my view - the lyrics are often puerile, and the Phil Spector-ish Wall of Sound production style on Pet Sound though important in its time is a relic compared to the cleaner, fuller sounds of the same period by the Beatles (Revolver) and Stones (Aftermath). I won't deny they had a shining moment in Pet Sounds, but it sure as hell doesn't warrant two songs from the record being in the top seven. And Good Vibrations (#21) is their greatest single.

I'm running on a bit here, so a couple more quick thoughts - a sixties list without Satisfaction is a joke. In fact, all of the Stones songs chosen were post 1966, thereby ignoring a fantastic (and important) period that included 19th Nervous B/Down, Get Off My Cloud, The Last Time and numerous others.

Mixing modern composition (Reich, Axelrod), country, and jazz into the list is silly. These things are largely incomparable, and ruins the purity of the list that simply looks at the pop charts. Just for example, Coltrane is there with Favourite Things (but not Love Supreme), but no Miles Davis, no Wayne Shorter, no Lee Morgan...and yet there's room for the Shirelles, the Shangri-Las, yadda yadda. Ok sure.

Nice to see Nico at 31 with These Days. Great song.

Three Zombies tracks (which is great), but not Time of The Season. Again, don't try so hard Pitchfork.

Re Dylan, I get that his early electric period (Highway 61 and Blonde on Blonde) is uber-cool as we sit in 2006 (and yeah it's great) but his early folk period, which influenced so many songwriters and inspired people in the social movements of the day have got to be there - choose from Blowin' in the Wind, Times They are a Changin', Masters of War.... Don't Think Twice is a great little ditty but misses the point.

Eight Miles High at 109 is just silly. It's a top tener. And not having either or both of Mr. Tambourine Man or Turn Turn Turn doesn't cut it.

And finally, I Want You Back is sure as fuck NOT the second best song of the sixties. And the Sam Cooke song as #3, though well-intentioned, is equally comical.

Just catching up on my NPR: All Songs Considered podcasts and came across a discussion of Paste Magazine's 100 Best Living Songwriters so of course I've linked to it here and you're, as always, welcome to leave your comments.

What struck me in hearing this list read out and then looking through it online:

• so many great living musicians, so few great albums these days
• Cat rates two below Sufjan, in the Battle of the Stevens department
• seeing Ray Davies at #41 must have the denizens of Pitchfork media in a tizzy, given the number of Kinks songs they included in the Top 200 singles from the 60s
• hurray for the inclusion of Public Enemy and its location in the same bracket as Loretta Lynn
• i'm so addicted to these lists and can't really help but link to them

I'm an 80s guy so I'm thinking Robert Smith (The Cure) should have been included.

Any glaring omissions for you?

-
-NPR podcasts are awesome...really, you need to subscribe

geeze louise list mania.....i dunno , picking songs is much more difficult then records for me, but any list that included wichita lineman,( glen campbel) cant be all that wrong...though , I sure wouldnt pick any jackson 5 song at number 2, and fortunate son as the best CCR song????....its also way too american focused (notwithstanding the obligatory stones, kinks, zeppelin and beatles)....
Ill have to take a closer look.....
s

Hey cool list and great subject for debate. Looks like the top 20 just got posted too. I've done a once through and will comment in nauseating detail later, but let me begin by saying, TWO SONGS OFF OF PET SOUNDS IN THE TOP FIVE IS COMPLETELY FUCKED!!!

God Only Knows is the greatest song of the sixties?!?!? I'll say it again.....God Only Knows (oh never mind). I will allow (without rancour) that God Only Knows is the best song on Pet Sounds.

Something about these dudes at Pitchfork is really beginning to bug me.

Re DaCapo. I await my vindication. (And if you don't like it, keep listening until you do, or until you're tired of the record and don't feel like blogging on it).

Derek reminded me to post my top ten jazz. Comin' up.

As luck would have it, some tech savvy Love fans have seen fit to upload a copy of 'Da Capo' at Torrentbox so i'll soon be able to listen to it and figure out a) what the hell you're both going on about and b) which of you two is more full of shit.

Speaking of music from the 60s, what do you all think of Pitchfork's 200 Greatest Songs of the 1960s ? Surely some teeth-gnashing and rending of garments will ensue...

Stuart, you miserable bastard.....I would have thought a man of your, let's say, sensibilities would have appreciated the melodic, romantic, psychedelic-flamenco-flavoured genius of side one of Da Capo. Da Capo, Orange Skies, Stephanie Know Who, and especially She Comes in Colours would make up a greatest hits record for any other band. Side 2 I grant you is a failed experiment in 60's boundary-expanding album concept - a full side of fairly mindless jamming which likely seemed a cool idea at the time (again, those hallucinogens). Listen to Side 1 and get back to me.

well I have de capo and although there are a couple of very good songs on it I wouldnt call it a great album...but since you like it so much i will give it another whirl.......but of course most likely its just that you are probably wrong again brain

Hate to interrupt my vacation but I can't just sit idly by while Arthur Lee is unfairly discounted.

Stuart - Good God man!

Conceiving and recording Forever Changes (sure, Bryan Maclean wrote two great songs on the record, but it is AL's project by and large) in and of itself is enough to justify a spot in the annals of recording history, it is that good (but I'll hold off on a full disertation), and truly unique....trivia question, name a band inspired by Love? (good luck.....). BUT, FC's predecessor, Da Capo, is a fantastic record. And Four Sail, the album immediately after FC (after Lee famously fired the entire band), is incredibly strong as well, if quite different. Taken as a three album set this puts Love right up there. Shame AL was burnt out at the age of 25, but hey, he was not alone in the sixties. And maybe psychedelic drugs weren't so fucking freeing after all.

Re Lemonheads, I've always been a big fan, but have considered them a bit of a guilty pleasure, given Evan's status as a rock hotty in the early nineties. I saw them live about seven or eight years ago and it was a very memorable show (except in one respect, who was with me, one or more of you guys?). Shame About Ray is a delightful record filled with great songs...time for me to re-listen, fave songs off the top of my head are Confetti, Ray, Rudderless, Hannah and Gabi, and Alison. Like Stu the Lou-Rawls-loving-Arthur-Lee-hating asshole, I also downloaded a bunch of songs from Baby I'm Bored and thought it was really solid, well worth investigating. Come on Feel the Lemonheads (the one after Ray) is also a pretty strong record.

OK, back to my suburban Ottawa holiday. Corona anyone?

I read about arthur lee and in contrast to lou rawls, here is a guy who certainly got his critical dues....While I do love forever changes, I have some other stuff which isnt nearly as good, and while not to rain on his parade ( or funeral march as it were) , I wonder that he didnt get almost too much acclaim.. ( i hear fists smaking Brians desk top) .......

quelle coincidence...I just bought lovey last week.....Marc introduced me to the lemonheads some years ago and its a shame about ray is an absolute stunner.....along with lowest of the lows shakespeare for straight ahead but wistfull rock/ pop/ roots. I also bought Evan Dandos solo record ..baby im bored...of a few years ago which is also terrific.....unfortunately I dont get anything like this out of lovey, but ive only played it twice so far.....is there anything else in the back catalogue worth pursuing.

Not quite sure what that last stream of conciousness post was so I'll just ignore it.

Being the rather anal fuck that I am I spent a fair bit of time today tidying up some space in order that the baby to be would have some space for its collection of stuff. Figure it's always easier for the guy than asking the woman to ditch the clothes she's collected over the last two decades.

Part of the fun of throwing away old junk is playing music to jibe with your nostalgic mood. When I put on the Lemonheads "It's A Shame About Ray" it was like I was hearing it for the first time. What a brilliant, if extremely truncated, record. Loved "My Drug Buddy", "Bit Part" and "Alison's Starting to Happen" especially. I think I'll have to go back and give "Lovey" another spin as perhaps I didn't give these guys the credit they deserved.

And in case you didn't hear Arthur "Love" Lee passed away last Thursday.

yes....barry manilow - weekend in new england
bobh dylan--live at budikon
kurt browning --sings his favorite ice capades hits
celion dion---while my mouth keeps spouting
andy gibb----why did I commit suicide when I had all those babes

i'll take the SAAB for $40.00! ...does it come with 6 free cd's?

For sale:
Yellow push lawn mower, slightly rusty
works well $ 40.00

Since when did this site become e-bay? Was that Saab promo aimed at me by any chance?

As for the Pitchfork best of the 70s list that was one of my starting points in compiling the CDs. However given the relative obscurity of many of the choices it didn't really help all that much. And I don't know if you noticed Stuart but they've somehow managed to leave out picks #21-30. The list has been posted for over 2 years you would think somebody at Pitchfork might have noticed by now.

For sale:
1997 SAAB 900S only 115,000 km, in great shape $5,000.00
AC, built-in child booster seats, 6 cd changer, roof rack
new brakes, clutch, tires
if you know anyone pass on my email please

danm I guess I better get back to jazz.....

just reading thru the list,fully 26 of the top 50 albums they pick are from 1977, 1978 and 1979.....I wonder if that has something to do with the age of the staff at pitchfork ...mind you Derek et al would probably argue thats about right

maybe youve seen this but ( I think ) I missed it and in light of saturday night check it out

Well we started this jazz compilation exercise 3 months back and still no end in sight. These are my penultimate 10 picks. I hope to post my last 10 choices before the start of the film festival. Are we going to vote on the top 25 at some point?

McCoy Tyner - Song for My Lady (1972)
Phil Woods - Rights of Swing (1960)
Archie Shepp & Mal Waldron - Left Alone Revisited (2002)
Bill Evans - Explorations (1961)
John Coltrane - Africa / Brass (1961)
Andrew Hill - Passing Ships (1969)
Charles Lloyd & Billy Higgins - Which Way is East (2004)
Clifford Brown & Max Roach - At Basin Street (1956)
Sonny Rollins - Tenor Madness (1956)
Thelonious Monk - Complete Columbia Solo Recordings (1962-68)

Actually Marc I too have some very mainstream faves from the 70s amongst others:

Joe Jackson - Look Sharp
Van Halen - Van Halen
Cheap Trick - Dream Police
Supertramp - Breakfast in America
Pink Floyd - The Wall
ABBA - Arrival, Voulez-Vous, The Album
Blondie - Parallel Lines
The Police - Regatta de Blanc
ELO - A New World Record
The Cars - The Cars, Candy O
Chic - C'est Chic, Risque
Queen - Jazz
Heatwave - Central Heating
Klaatu - Klaatu

As you can see it wasn't all angular riffs and power pop.

Me thinks my list might look very different from yours Derek!

…top 31 albums from the 70’s that are, or at one time where very significant to ME, in no particular order.

Marvin Gaye: What's Going On
The Eagles : Hotel California
Pink Floyd : Dark Side of the Moon
Boston : Boston
Peter Frampton : Frampton Comes Alive
Pink Floyd: Wish You Were Here
Bob Dylan: Blood on the Tracks
Van Morrison: Moondance
Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band: Born to Run
Elton John: Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Fleetwood Mac: Rumors
Saturday Night Fever
The Clash: London Calling
Elvis Costello : this Years Model
Pink Floyd: The Wall
Blondie: Parallel Lines
Supertramp: Breakfast in America
The Cars: The Cars
Stevie Wonder: Songs in the Key of Life
George Harrison: All Things Must Pass
Joe Jackson: Look Sharp
David Bowie: The Rise and Fall of Ziggie Stardust
Creedence Clearwater Revival: Cosmo’s Factory
Dire Straits: Dire Straits
Supertramp: Crime of the Century
Cheap Trick: At Budokan
Neil Young: Harvest
Ramones: Rocket to Russia
The Doors: Weird Scenes inside the Gold Mine
Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band: Greetings From Asbury Park
Deep Purple: Machine Head

…pretty mainstream hunh!

I find the 70’s, as a decade, to be fascinating for it’s diversity. It is the decade in which (arguably) popular music grew in a way in which it never had before. It was the first decade in which a generation of baby boomers where growing up and the wave of the population segment started to take serious hold on the values of western culture. Until that point they had remained primarily counter cultural. It is true that in the 60’s, rock and roll lost it’s innocents in it’s experimentation with psychedelia et al. but in the 70’s it continued to explore new territories in the areas of glam rock, art rock, and produced some major conceptual works. It was a period in which country, folk, blues, r&b, soul and reggae continued to flourish. …say nothing for the roof being blowing off of music scene in the late 70’s.

It might be argued that it was in part an advance in technology, the FM radio, that helped to blow the pop music field wide open and give an audience to an ever increasingly diverse art form, or it might be argued that it was affluence and disposable income that allowed for a growingly diverse market.

No matter, it astounds me when I start to think about what the 70’s mean to me from a musical perspective. I must say that my list would include a lot of “classics” from the early 70’s. Looking back on the period and starting to hear some more obscure music from the era, I find it very interesting how the roots of music can be like a giant web. It draws snippets of influence from here and there and when you look at the cross pollination of genres you can unearth some really remarkable relationships.

I think that this cross pollination was stronger and moved faster in the 70’s than ever before and spawned the birth of punk, disco, new wave. It became increasingly easy for artists to be influence by other cultures or sub-cultures and music grew faster and more than it ever had before in a single decade. At the beginning of the 70’s the world became a smaller place.

I also find it interesting though, that when you look at the period of 1970 – 1980, admittedly quite arbitrary to define a period by a year that ends in 0 (agreed Mr Watson), it was culturally book-ended by the waning of the flour child and the birth of the “new music”, and that which happened in between was, although it produced some of rock’s greatest music, not as significant as what happened on either end of it.

…and yes Derek, I’d love a copy of your take on the 70’s

Stuart, you superficial bastard.

So, while I agree that the new wave / punk stuff may not align well with uni-concept views of the seventies as the disco era (gotta love the way time via memory plus art turns everything into mush), or the eighties as techno crap, I think it is far more emblazoned on my skull and heart than any of those Hollywood meets Dick Clark versions of those times. It just floats above it, and stands time far better. Remain at least somewhat mush-free if you will.

My choices of shouldabeens would be in a similar vein to Derek's, with perhaps a little more pop in my punk / new-wave mix:

I would start without about half of Derek's bands (esp. Gang of Four, Undertones, T/Heads yadda....) then add

The Records - Starry Eyes
Joe Jackson - Sunday Papers
Dave Edmunds - Girls Talk
Graham Parker and the Runour - Local Girls
Devo - Mongoloid (oh right, Derek had this one)
Brahm Tchaikovsky - Girl of My Dreams
Fabulous Poodles - Mirror Stars
Boomtown Rats - Someone's Looking at You
Television - See No Evil
The Damned - Neat Neat Neat

there are others.

Put me down for a lesson and a disc as well, please. Though I'm familiar with some of those tracks and bands, I was kind of into Pat Benatar and Supertramp at that time; to be fair, I was 8 at the time and most of my musical discoveries came courtesy of K-tel compilations. Would love to accquaint myself with some of these artists. Plus, I don't have a copy of 'Adolescent Sex' and kind of need to hear it again.

clearly we have next years dinner party theme.....the roots of punk, punk and early new wave the 1977 to 1982 theme party......this stuff is a little like the lost generation in that when people think of the 70's they are (arguably) more likely to think of studio 54 disco or singer songwritter stuff then the clash and when people think of eights stuff they are (arguably) more likely to think of madonna and they cure and depeche mode then say ....the jam ...
I am sure to be pilloried here but I think you take my point (that being derek is a loser)
admittedly my knowledge of this stuff is not deep and I could do with a lesson or 2 in it...

This one's easy as the discs are at this point pretty much a done deal. If it was up solely to me I would probably ignore almost everything pre-1979 and bombard your asses with nothing but punk, new wave and early electronica. Sadly it's not up to me despite my assigned role as DJ. So to paraphrase senor Bowie I am the DJ but I ain't what I play.

The list that would make at least one full CD's worth of music for me. If any of you would like a copy of this to play as a cure for Sunday's hangover put in your request now.

Gary Numan - Down in the Park
Sparks - This Town Ain't Big Enough
B52s - Dance this Mess Around
Undertones - Teenage Kicks (and many more besides)
Genesis - Ripples
Devo - Jocko Homo
Squeeze - Up the Junction
Buzzcocks - Orgasm Addict
Talking Heads - I Zimbra
David Bowie - Jean Genie
Headboys - The Shape of Things to Come
The Jam - To Be Someone
Stiff Little Fingers - Alternative Ulster
Joan Armatrading - Love and Affection
Ultravox - Hiroshima Mon Amour
Japan - Adolescent Sex
The Slits - I Heard it Through the Grapevine
The Stranglers - Duchess
Roxy Music - Virginia Plain
Simple Minds - Changeling
Gang of Four - I Found that Essence Rare
Human League - Empire State Human
Mi-Sex - Computer Games

Hello darkness my old friends....

Okay, how about this, then: come up with the '70s songs you'd most like to hear on Saturday night at Stuart and Yvette's dinner party but suspect Derek will, either deliberately (maliciously?) or accidentally (ignorantly?) leave off the 5+ discs he's compiling for the purpose.

Derek, you can come up with a list that contains both and we'll have to guess which ones will or won't make the cut. Sound like fun? More fun than the value-concert proposition?

even more incredible than the fact that they are asking $200 a ticket is the fact that people are willing to shell out that kind of money for these tired retreads. considering that for $15, one can see richard buckner, a musician who actually creates new music with a unique voice and style, and it quickly clear that a who concert does not offer much in the way of value. and just howmany farewell tours is this now for the who? 5 and counting? why not just set up shop in las vegas with a group of french canadian contortionists?

i'd suggest that we come up with lists of the top 5 over-the-hill musicians/bands that overcharge for the quality of show they continue to deliver but this seems too much like shooting fish in a barrel. i mean, without even taking my hands away from the keyboard i come up with the rolling stones, the eagles, barbara streisand, celine dion, and elton john and surely there are many others that will immediately come to mind.

instead, i propose you come up with your list of your top 5 'best value' concerts. those which cost you very little but delivered much in the way of entertainment and musical pleasure. it doesn't have to be the cheapest concert you ever attended, just the one where you felt you really got your money's worth. game?

Likely skint from having blown a pile of cash on that Kurt Browning extravaganza you may want to try and scrape together a few more pennies to see one of the best bands on the planet (if it was 1976 at any rate).

That's right the band who just never knows when to quit and keep reminding us to "not get fooled again" are back to try and pull the wool over your eyes one more time. The Who at the ACC in December (a mere 5 months away, can you say cash grab boys and girls) and floor seats going for a mere $202 plus $14.50 in service charges. With Daltrey at 62 and Townshend at 61 which "generation" would they be talking about exactly?

How many tickets do each of you want for this?

Plus, a kinder relfection on Syd Barett.

thats for the heads up on barrett kyle, I had missed that info somehow...Being a huge Floyd fan for many years, Ive never quite got the drift of the fascination of this guy....Being a geezer now I shall have to revist him...dead guys generate all the interest of course

Hey, too bad about Syd B. Though, wasn't he dead already? Who knew? Perhaps we can have a listen to Arnold Layne and See Emily Play in memorium on Thursday.

Re Sufjan, as a big fan of his, and specifically, of the Illinoise record, I can still see many of the points that AllMusicGuy is making, and I don't entirely disagree. One does fight annoyance about the completeness and coyness of it all, and the "songs" (the eight or ten complete verse/chorus numbers on the record) do all share similar arrangements and styles, but hey, to deny the ambition, and comparative success, of the overall project, not to mention the individual genius of many of the songs and extra-songic musical moments, is simply to be cantankerous and difficult. And that's part of a music critic's job description, so I get that too. Now he just needs to convince me of the brilliance of some other endeavor...like who, Arctic Monkeys?

I've looked him up, and he has opened the door to personal attacks by publishing on the AllMusic site a bio and desert island list. Which is pretty great actually.

Re Thursday - My address is 66 Arundel Avenue, one block east of Chester (subway station)

Perhaps we can also invite AllMusic.com's Stephen Thomas Erlewine, whose timely (in light of today's Sufjan Stevens' release yesterday's group email fluttterings) piece is just wrong.

Also, sad news (is there every any happy news about him?) about original Floyd vocalist Syd Barrett, who recently passed away.

Hilarious. Nice little ditty too, very un-YLT like. I'll clear some furniture for the big scrap Thursday.

See y'all at 8 bells or therafter, I will be providing some snacks for the wrestlers (and the rest of you too I guess). We will be experimenting with volume to see what the kids can withstand.

as a response, let me refer you to the title of the upcoming yo la tengo album.

best album title of all-time nominee.

Nice to see I have some backing even if it is sort of half assed. Unlike the French however I would at least know where to place my noggin and it wouldn't be in the middle of Kyle's sternum despite the obvious height differential that is comparable to that of Zidane and Materazzi. Perhaps I can get to Brian's early and at the very least persuade Oliver to kneel down behind Kyle to get me off to that Scottish advantage that I would so desparately need.

all kidding aside I would surely love to see derek and kyle duking it out....it will certanly lively thigs up, Ill start the bidding....Ill put 5 bucks down on Derek , but only because the scots fight dirty....in a clean match Kyle all the way...

Okay okay! Since I'm such an affable guy who wouldn't want to permanently jeopardize future nights of shit-faced revelry, here's what I'll do: I'll listen to the disc at least once a day for the next 7 days. I'll listen under a variety of conditions--running, walking to work, taking the streetcar, sitting in the backyard, and driving. And I'll let you know my verdict at the cd club. And if I still don't like it, well, I'll try to take my comeuppance with dignity (minimal tears).

Aside from that, any of the nominees for the Polaris that stand out for any of you?

Kyle I just spent a really good 5 or 6 hours drinking my face to off with you and then I come home and am confronted with this blog. How anyone can possibly say that the BSS disc gets worse from about track 3 onwards is absolutely out of their mind. Track 2 is Ibi Dreams of Pavement, track 3 is 7/4 (Shoreline), track 4 is a brief 1 minute interlude and track 5 is Major Label Debut which over a 12 minute span might be some of the best fucking music ever put to vinyl/cd. Believe it or not of all the 28 days or so of music I have on my iPod this is the music I chose to listen to on my way home tonight and as always it was magic. If you cannot dig this record then perhaps we should duke it out at Brian's on the 13th. I think Brian feels likewise so as a tag team I need a backup. Marc or Stuart are you ready to rumble?

Okay, here are my next ten jazz postings...oh wait, I'm not doing that. It's not that I don't want to, it's just that I don't think I've listened to enough jazz or enough varieties of jazz to attempt a definitive, albeit highly idiosyncratic, top 50 list. But that's just me. What the hell happened to the rest of you?

Speaking of list-making and the inherent problems of coming to an agreed upon 'best' list, I'm not sure if you're aware of something called the Polaris Prize. Several months back I complained about the unbelievably piss-poor quality of the Juno nominees. Seems that this Polaris award is an answer to my plea that awards be given out to artists with actual, um, talent:

Broken Social Scene - Broken Social Scene
Cadence Weapon - Breaking Kayfabe
The Deadly Snakes - Porcella
Final Fantasy - He Poos Clouds
Sarah Harmer - I'm a Mountain
K'Naan - The Dusty Foot Philosopher
Malajube - Trompe L'oeil
Metric - Live it Out
The New Pornographers - Twin Cinema
Wolf Parade - Apologies to the Queen Mary

Haven't heard Cadence, Malajube, or K'Naan, and the BSS disc somehow gets worse for me on each listen (starting at about track 3) but overall it's a solid list. I'll bring the Deadly Snakes disc to Brian's next week to see what y'all think of it. And anyone living or working in the downtown core will certainly get a kick out of the title of this track by Final Fantasy.

Thoughts?

Not sure if you've put the finishing touches on Gavin's disc(s) but Brian's post references some bands whose songs should definitely be on that list. Specifically, I refer to:

'Velvet Roof' by Buffalo Tom, 'I Can Dream All Day' by the Posies, 'Sunshine State' by Superchunk, 'Gold Soundz' or 'Range Life' from Pavement, and if he anticipates getting into a fight with his wife (Maureen...am I right...have the drugs not yet entirely fried my brain and my memory is awesome??) perhaps the slowly building angry 'Not Too Amused' by Sebadoh.

Btw...if you could export and post the playlist when you're done that would be peachy.

Re driving music, I often find myself drawn to some of the grand ol' alt-rock of the nineties, with its big beats, guitars, drums, and angst and irony...ah, those were fine fine years. I'm thinking Pavement (probably Crooked Rain), Sebadoh's Bakesale, GBV (Isolation Drills, which admittedly is from '01), Eleventh Dream Day's "El Moodio", The Posies (Frosting on the Beater), Sloan, Superchunk, Yo La Tengo, I'll allow Radiohead (though they appear to be fading for me), and hell why not Smashing Pumpkins and Nirvana?! OK, you may draw the line there.

As an aside, isn't it interesting how, ten or twelve years after the fact, I have distilled the early-mid nineties, which were a fantastic period of musical discovery for me, into about ten records - no mention of Drugstore, Polvo, Cracker, Hayden, Grant Lee Buffalo, or Buffalo Tom for that matter, and myriad other bands that I truly dug at the time. Does make you wonder about the true power and resonance of pop music.

So, admittedly, Derek, if you're looking to impress Gavin with your musical wherewithal, slapping on Nevermind may not get the job done....but there is some fine driving music to be mined from the period.

Another great source of driving music is hard bop - 50's and 60's jazz, you know, Sonny Clark's quintet stuff, almost anything by Lee Morgan, Jackie MacLean, Booker Ervin, yadda yadda. Particularly good at night.

And hey, while we're all talking about jazz.....

In that case, I'd advise Gavin to pick up a personal dvd player with lighter adapter, to play Dora/Einstein in the backseat for the younglings while he and his wife enjoy something a little less twee (that is, unless they decide to play anything by the Polyphonic Spree).

For the opposite mood....mellow crusing thru senic landscapes I like the first sigour rios disc, but the last one would probably work too, For rockin I like driving to the second strokes disc, clash london calling........james laid has a great up and down mix...lemonheads ( the one with its a shame about ray)...roxy music ..siren, sloan.twice removed... im sure there are more, but its all i can thik of at the office

Kyle and Marc great work lads. Responses above and beyond the call of duty. Although now you're pretty much forcing me to go out and cut 3 or 4 mix CDs for Gavin. It would be completely irresponsible of me not to do so after such enthusiastic input.

Not many finer driving songs than "Destroy Everything You Touch". Were there any other particular tracks Marc off the albums you recommended that I should pinpoint for inclusion on a CD or two?

Kyle, I'll pass along your recommendation re books on CD but you fail to take in to account that senor Gavine has dos hijos (muy joven) and thus will be lucky to see his way past 2 or 3 track of any musical CD that I might pass his way.

Stuart and Brian any songs/albums you would like to posit?

Best Driving Albums

Okay, criteria first. No instrumental music. Putting pedal to the metal to the tune of Wagner’s Ride of the Valkyries may have some British researchers in a tizzy but I’d suggest you stick to something with lyrics, something vaguely familiar (so you can sing along), and nothing too negative in either tone or message; the last thing you want to be doing is contemplating the futily of human existence while maneuvering a ton of glass and steel at 120 kph .

Sometimes terrain can play a big role in determining the best music to select. The first time I was in Palm Springs, driving around at dusk, I found the instrumental tracks on Yo La Tengo’s ‘I Can Hear the Heart Beating as One’ to be particularly suited to the somewhat barren, dusty landscape that I was making my way through. I don't know what cds are best suited to the initially beautiful but ultimately monotonous sightlines of the Canadian Shield, though.

On my recent long driving stretches through various states, I’ve enjoyed:

The Shins’ “Chutes Too Narrow”. Clever lyrics that can be belted out at full volume (You TOLD US OF YOUR NEW LIFE THERE/You’ve got someone coming round/gluing tinsel to your crown) and it has a lot of ‘woos’ and ‘oohs’, which are easy to pronounce and cathartic to utter.

New Order’s ‘Substance’. Really a greatest hits collection up to 1987, most tracks have an underlying electronic beat that keep you awake. Crank up ‘Blue Monday’ for those long, curvy roads at night. If you can’t stand the synthesizers, go with the Joy Division release of the same title.

The Beatles ‘Revolver’. Because it’s not my favourite of their albums, but it's probably their best album of songs, if that makes any damn sense. Plus you’re bound to know most of the words.

The Doors ‘The Best of the Doors’. Again, you know the words and songs like ‘Break on through’ and ‘Roadhouse Blues’ (Keep your eyes on the road/your hands upon the wheel) can only truly be appreciated while driving.

The New Pornographers ‘The Electric Version’. Smart, tight, rocking pop ditties that will have you coasting down the road with a smile on your face.

Calexico ‘Feast of Wire’. Particularly for those moments when you’re in the middle of nowhere, and maybe even as he’s driving by some of the reservations up in northern Ontario, I get the sense that the mood of the album will just seem right.

Clinic ‘Internal Wrangler’ or ‘Walking With Thee’ – the harmonica that powers most of the tracks is not an unlike a horn, and combined with the pounding drums, seem to announce your presence on the road.

In the ‘It’ll either annoy the shit out of you or you’ll find it an interesting album to discover along the way’ department, may I suggest, ‘Blueberry Boat’ by The Fiery Furnaces. There are some tracks which still grate, particularly the opener, but there are some gems as well as gems within duds. With such a long drive, you'll either come to love it or want to throw it out the window.

As for individual songs, perhaps you could make him a mixed disc that would include:

‘Bathtime in Clerkenwell’ by The Real Tuesday Weld, for the beginning of the trip. You’ll want to bounce up and down in your seat as you head out of the city.

‘Faron’ by Prefab Sprout, not only because references the act in the lyrics (Driving/on a straight road which never alters/and the waitress serenades but doesn’t falter) but because the steady guitar propels the song forward in a car-like manner.

‘Mass Romantic’ by the New Pornographers. Not on the disc referenced above but another, anthemic, shout-out loud, energetic song.

‘Fingerpops’ by Garageland. Mentions driving up to a lake but also has a bopping kind of rhythm to it that’s really fun for driving.

‘Neighbourhood #3 (Power Out) by The Arcade Fire. Quick pace, relentlessly positive, will keep you awake.

‘Wave of Mutilation’ by the Pixies, which mentions driving your car into the ocean, which is course is impossible if you’re headed to Timmins to no worries.

‘Not Even Jail’ by Interpol, from their last disc, which has a pounding drum which again I find suitable for driving (as well as for fucking but this could be dangerous while behind the wheel --best to stick to oral while the car's in motion).

I gotta say, though, for a drive to Timmins, a handful of 30 to 60 minute cds will just not suffice, as he’ll will probably get tired of listening to just music. For a return trip of that length my recommendation would be to take along at least one or two Books on CD, many of which are available at the Public Library. You can also rent them from Audiobooks on Bay Street (just south of Richmond on the west side) for little more than the cost of a movie rental ($7-$8). An Inspector Rebus novel by Ian Rankin will do nicely. Any of the Harry Bosch novels by Michael Connelly are also enjoyable, as they make similar use of the truculent, unconventional cop with a dark past motif without resorting to self-parody.

Enjoy the ride.

Did someone say ROAD TRIP!!!

…calls for an eclectic mix of moods…nothing to sombre that will lull you sleep.

Ladytron, Witching Hour
Garbage, Self titled
Antibalas, Talkatif
Branvan3000, glee
Art Bergman, Sexual Roulette
Lemonheads, It’s a Shame about Ray
Jack Johnson, Thicker Than Water
Bugge Wesseltoft, New Conceptions in Jazz – FILM iNG
Bob Dylan, Blood on the Tracks
Nightmares on Wax, Carboot Soul
U2 – Achtung Baby

Top 5 singles to get you arrested:

Lou Reed – New Sensations
Tom Petty – Running Down a Dream
The Who – Going Mobile
Springsteen –Night
Moby – Extreme Ways

An interesting challenge, which raises the question: what music best accompanies long stretches of driving? While there are doubtless some albums which fit the bill, they are many individual songs which have always enhanced the driving experience (first on my list, "No Love Lost" by Joy Division, though 'She's Lost Control', with its constant drumbeat, celebrated in Winterbottom's "24 Hour Party People", also does the trick). Since Stuart and Marc are racing enthusiasts, I imagine they will both have some interesting suggestions here. Well done, Gavin.

Thinking caps on.

I am also good for July 13th.

On a side note, Gavin here at work has a long drive up to Timmins on the long weekend and asked if I could suggest some good driving CDs. He's looking for complete discs by a specific artist so not a mixed CDR or a greatest hits thing. Old or new any suggestions?

the 13th works for me.

Time for someone (me) to show a little leadership and get this jazz list back on track.

My next ten are:

(20) Thelonious Monk - Brilliant Corners (1956)
(19) Dave Brubeck - Time Out (1959)
(18) David Murray - Body and Soul (1993)
(17) Sonny Rollins - Saxophone Colossus (1956)
(16) Cannonball Adderley - Something Else (1958)
(15) Dexter Gordon - Our Man in Paris (1963)
(14) Rahsaan Roland Kirk - The Inflated Tear (1967)
(13) Chet Baker - Chet (1959)
(12) Bud Powell - The Amazing Bud Powell (Vol 2) (1953)
(11) Helen Merrill - Dream of You (1956)

A few quirky choices in there, but I love 'em dearly.

Cheap ass sample of Soft Cell's signature hit, though it may be, SOS does indeed work in cardio situations. I'd caution you, Mr. Doyle, to listen at your peril. Thanks for thinking of me as I am indeed booked for June 22nd for a fundraiser, to which I'm happy to accompany my wife, don't let the looks on my face suggest otherwise.

I can do July 13th, no problem.

I am away on that week, but Brian and I can both do July 13th a thursday night...

July 6th works for me.

As does "SOS" by Rihanna. For those who write off top 40 music without so much as a blink you do so at your peril.

Boys - Victoria has pointed out that Kyle cancelled our book club meeting for June 22 due to another engagement (Breast Cancer funtion he and Sarah are attending) , so, and I'm only guessing here, he likely isn't available for the CD Club either. And tempting though it is to shaft the man - after all he's been vacationing in Italy, and we haven't - my more mature side is whispering "no Brian, re-schedule".

So, how about Thursday July 6th ?

thanks for the info lads.....guess Im off to Gregorian.....

Hilary gets the nod, though, because she's kind of cute.

I have the exact same selection of Vengerov disks, and had the pleasure of hearing him play the Britten violin concerto a couple of years ago. An absolute stunner. He reminds me of Evgeny Kissin, except on violin, with his authoritative, muscular style. I have mostly heard him play modern pieces and it suits them very well.

One of the first classical discs I ever purchased was Vengerov playing both the Shostakovich and Prokofiev 1st violin concertos under the guidance of the legendary cellist Mstislav Rostropovich. It came out in 1994 on Teldec and Gramaphone gave it some serious accolades. I've never really warmed up to either piece but I think Vengerov is certainly a wonderful musician. Alongside Annie Sophie Mutter and perhaps now Hilary Hahn he is considered one of the pre-eminent players of our time. About 5 years ago at the CD club Greg brought along the CD "Vengerov and Virtuosi" which like a box of chocolates has Vengerov playing some beautiful short pieces written for violin.

My personal favourite of his is a disc from 3 years ago, again with Rostropovich conducting, has Vengerov playing the Britten violin concerto and the Walton viola concerto. A terrific disc that everyone should rush out and purchase right away. His disc from 2002 which contains primarily the Ysaye violin sonatas is also very good.

I must digress from jazz for the moment to classical....last night I saw maybe the best performance in the last few years at the TSO concert. ( I know I am prone to superlatives...but I actually stood up for a standing o...) Unfortunatly I dont know anything about the piece of music or the violinist or the conductor...They are Maxim Vengerov on violin, conducted by Andrey Boreyko performing Shostokovitch's Violin Concerto # 1 which I understand to be written in the late forties in the Stalin ruled soviet republic.... The piece was haunting grim and at the end almost maniacle...but in parts it is very minimalist with solo parts for various instruments including Vengerov of couse. The contrast of Vengerov playing solo and then the orchestra kicking in was dynamic. He played the instrument with much macho vigour which seemed appropriate...in short he plyed the shit out of it but it still was in control not ....missed or squeeked stinging. Boreyko was working the TSO like I have never seen , fascially and with his hands indicating too load or too quiet or gently etc...at times to various sections of the orchestra, Ive never seen that to such a degree before, but they responded.....anyway a quick web search didnt give me a whole lot to go on , do any of you know much about Vengerov or the concerto or Boreyko??