I couldnt agree with you more, Derek and Kyle about the Robert Evert Green article , which I didnt think to be so much condescending to the Dixie Chicks, but rather insitefull and providing an alternate media type of perspective, which is what I though defined good journalism, especially in light of the bandwagon journalism we saw with the start of the Iraq war... I see him occasionally as he has kids at my daughters school , and he said he takes heat whenever he does this sort of thing and sometimes wonders if its worth it....sad..........
Finally, the most absurd scene at the grammys (I read about it) has to be ornette coleman giving the best new artist award to an idol contest winner...I would love to know what was going through his head........did this really happen????impossible that the show organisers couldnt see the irony in this statement...

I too read a large sample of the posts after reading his article and was surprised at the vehemence expressed in many of them. His basic point I thought was that all this fawning over the Dixie Chicks as some sort of standard bearer for free speech rights and standing up to the man has gone way over the top. I thought his take that "we're ashamed to be from Texas" is no different than "we love you London, Toronto, Tashkent..."was fairly astute.

The Macleans guy's article is quite funny re Globe "politics" but still think REG got it right.

I also enjoyed Robert Everett-Green's article on the Dixie Chicks that you linked to, Derek, and was a little dismayed to read so many chiding, borderline abusive comments that conveniently ignore his point entirely. Even the usually erudite Paul Wells of Maclean's chimes in with a snarky kick at the Globe critic in a recent blogpost.

I don't think Green was reflexively adopting a pro-Canadian, anti-American, or even anti-Dixie Chicks stance. Nor was he trying to promote himself as an arbiter of taste for the nation (at least no more or less than other critics, bloggers, or anyone with an opinion about music does). He was merely offering an alternate take on the 'aren't these Dixie Chicks courageous and aren't the Grammy voters therefore courageous by association' line that most of the mainstream media has been peddling ever since the trio picked up their trophys on the weekend: that perhaps their stance wasn't as brave and political as it appears, that the ensuing publicity that they have received has been well-orchestrated, and that the have ultimately benefited greatly from their positioning as anti-bushites.

I didn't think that Green was being condescending but perhaps my continuing disdain for the Grammy's has clouded my judgment.

Watched about 10-15 minutes of the Grammys on Sunday night and it was a sad and sorry lot of performances and nominees. What does it say about the relevance of "pop"ular music when 2007's show kicks off with 1982's biggest band? Kinda like Prince playing the SuperBowl.

There simply are no more "big" acts (certainly not the fucking Dixie Chicks) and this has the record companies running scared. What to sink your big promo money into when there are no longer any guarantees. Today's Limp Bizkit could be tomorrow's Creed.

And looking at your link to the list of Grammy winners I see that Frampton, Dylan, Tony Bennet, Stevie Wonder, and Madonna are amongst the winners. Are we celebrating 5 decades of music or just 2007?

It's too bad about your experience looking for the Prokofiev. Usually Gregorian is a bit better than the average store in helping you find something. Were you able to pick it up?

As for the 80's gems I do own the 12" version of Nowhere Girl and I'm pretty sure I own Let Me Go. You can certainly hear them tomorrow night.

I'll bring along my ipod, as well as a few discs. I should have at least one rocking track for you (already have it picked out).

Agree that it's been a little quiet here of late, which I attribute to a combination of the following: brian's vacay, the lack of interest in submitting a valentine's playlist of free mp3s (which i also lost interest in so please don't take this as a reprimand), stuart's recent fixation with music he already owns, derek's recent fixation with child-rearing, the fact that marc has already contributed his quarterly post, my travel, the cold weather, global warming, the incompetence of the bush administration, and the general despair associated writing anything about music in a world where the grammy awards exist.

I was tempted to write another diatribe against music awards shows, after reading that a novelty rap song wherein the female vocalist repeatedly boasts about the size of her tits was crowned 'best pop performance' at the aforementioned annual celebration of the mediocre, the irrelevant, and the downright fecal, but I think the complete list of winners speaks for itself.

I was also going to talk about how pitiful cd stores are these days. I went to HMV (Bloor/Yonge), Atelier, and Songbook recently to look for the Prokofiev disc and was sorely disappointed by the lack of selection and general disinterest of most of the staff. Will we have to buy all our music electronically in a few years? Is this a bad thing? I bought Sarah a copy of the latest Shins disc this week and she asked me why I didn't just buy it online. It's not available at emusic so I couldn't have got it for a steal but still could have saved $6 (tax in) by downloading the whole album from itunes for $9.99. I didn't really have an answer. Or rather, my answer should have been, "I should have bought it online".

All this brings me to an article in today's National Post, which suggests directions for the music industry that we've all discussed in the past.

My thoughts:
1) It's well past time for the record industry to join the 21st century and acknowledge that most people who actually give a shit about music don't really give a shit about most of the artists that they promote
2) Awards shows like the grammys and junos will continue their slide into irrelevance as declining sales can't even mask the conceit that they are bestowing honour based on merit
3) I will continue to reserve my right to complain about the inherent flaws of any future music distribution system

Also, XM radio rules. The rental car I had last week in WA had an XM radio receiver and I was treated to "All Cats Are Gray" by the Cure, "Nowhere Girl" by B-Movie, and "Let Me Go" by Heaven 17, all 80s gems that are largely forgotten and seldom played. Derek, do you have any of these tracks on vinyl (the cure song is on 'Faith' but the others are probably just singles)? If so, can you play them on Friday?

Assuming that anyone is still checking this rather moribund site wanted to remind everyone that we're getting together at my place tomorrow night, February 16th. Mey and the wee lad are off to his granny's for the night so we can turn up the music. I'll be relying on you gents to come up with the new "rock" goods as I've been mostly listening to classical and jazz these days as my sleep-deprived self rarely feels like shaking its money maker. If it's easier for some feel free to bring along your iPod as it can be connected to my stereo. Saves cutting copies of CDs of music you've downloaded.

I may be a little shy of new discs coming to the next cd club and its all due to the ipod....I never realised how constrained my listening experiences used to be (ie Yvette doesnt like jazz or hard rock, Rhys hates opera, music at the office cant be harsh and the selection is small, I only had 6 discs or so of choise at any one time in the car, etc... ) I was telling marc how now that I have access to hundres of cds in the car, at the office and on the subway etc... I have been listening to my back catalogue and enjoying the experience emmensly...the 400 bucks cost has repayed itself already in finding hidden jems in my collection I had forgotten or didnt know because of the rarety of listening to it...At any rate I will have to get my new purchases to gether shortly for the 16th......

How do you like the new blogger? I actually hate it, as it fails to remember my password with each login, despite the fact that I click the 'remember me' box every fucking time i login. Arrrgh!!

Technical issues aside, thought y'all might be interested in a contest , where the best Valentine's Day playlist wins...well...little more than a shout out to that special person in your life, but hey, it's the journey and not the destination, right. Make sure you share your list here after submitting it at Salon. We could also come up with a 'Most Trite' Valentine's list, but this would likely fill an entire 80GB hard drive, even if encoded at a lowly 96kbps.

I haven't checked but I think I have Mischa Maisky playing the Cello, and Pletnev conducting.

I have a version that was released in 2003 on EMI with the LSO conducted by Atonio Pappano and Han-Na Chang on cello.

I have not picked a copy yet but have my eye on the London Philharmic recording with Mstislav Rostropovich on cello, Seiji Ozawa conducting ...have yet to find a copy.

just picked up the Prokofiev , and it sounds good on first listen....which version do you guys have?
s

I believe that itunes uses the AAC format . If Itunes sells you the song then you are able to copy it 3 times. If you get a new computer you need to de register your old computer w apple so as not to waste one of your 3 copys. I have heard some say if you burn your itunes bought song onto a disc and then copy that burned copy you bypass this issue. If you are simply ripping your own cd to your own computer you own the rights (I think) and you can make as many copies as you want. I have ripped about 400 cds using itunes AAC at 160 bit rate to generally pretty great results...

Am i right in thinking that most on-line sales such as emusic are mp3 @ 128bit with the exception of iTunes that are sold in the format of AAC files? Are there not copywrite protection isues with the AAC files that will prevent the user from backing up their files or copy write them to other sources?

further thought marc,
Jeff (of Charlotte and jeff) had said that if you connected the ipod by the usb like data port instead of the headphone jack to the home sterio or car sterio that the sound would be much better, but I have seen no other refernece to this online ( and I searched) and the sales people at the source say that that is bunk there is no difference to music, and that that type of connection only benefits you by the fact it now doubles as a power recharge station . At apple they only seem to have the headphone adapter kits as well. In short to improve sound you are left with tweaking the encoding format (like I describe earlier) which helps a lot or using as encoding format that leaves the music files too big to be practical. You can also buy a sterio audio receiver (like the one i refer to earlier) which can store limitless cds in a onboard computer, but they are extremely expensive...I think that will change soon though.....

I have put some effort into searching what file formats to use Marc. I found Mp3s at 120 bit rate to be crappy, and I found that apple lossless , which is a compressed format , but without anything removed, to be too big ....I have found the apple format AAC (which I think are mp4's)at at 160 bit rate to be much much better....You may have to stick with apple and itunes , as I think the mp3s are more universal, but I here that all these formats are evolving and within 5 years the ipods will be limitless in terms of storage space... Also , the Ipod is quite a good user friendly interface with your music collection , once you learn how to customise the genras and other identifying bits of information (which is quite easy) and I cant believe that there isnt a cheap type of new receiver which is basically a bigger version an ipod...but maybe thats wghat your friend has..

Apparently the new blogger does not like copy and pasted punctuation very much, what's up with that?

As everyone knows I have a problem with lists, but here goes. I’m not exactly sure how to define this list …I think that is nice that each of you have chosen to define it slightly differently.

In my mind, three albums stand above all others in the grunge world. They are:
Nirvana, Nevermind
Smashing Pumpkins, Siamese Dream
Pearl Jam, Ten

These albums have what it takes to be classics; they’re strong from start to finish, flow from cut to cut, contain no filler and where, incidentally, all commercially successful and had a big impact on the public. Earlier I noted Disarm as being my favourite track off of Siamese Dream, because, as it is viewed in context of the album, it is the pivot point in the sequence of the whole. After all, Grunge was big on the turning point. It was all about the contrast, the crispness of acoustic guitar chords juxtaposed against layers of distortion, tender poetic moments contrasted with occasionally truly misogynistic anger, and all wrapped in a tidy package of plaid, angst and on occasions, volume. Most importantly it had to emote the depravity of a disenfranchised generation of youth.

From the top 3 grunge albums
Nevermind, 1) Smells Like Teen Spirit (interesting story about where that song came from), 2)Lithium
Ten, 3)Black & 4)Jeremy (having said what I said about solid albums, I would have cut the tenth of the eleven tracks on the album (Deep) to make it a solid “Ten”)
Siamese Dream, 5)Cherub Rock, 6)Disarm

I think though, that one of the main things that bonds Grunge together into a cohesive style is association. The reason that I bring this up is that when I sit down to listen to various albums and try to decide if they musically fit into the “grunge” slot it becomes difficult. Art Bergman’s Sexual roulette from 1990, for example, fits the mould in many respects but would never have been thought of as grunge.
6) Art Bergmann – Bound for Vegas

One of my favourite grunge tunes is Nirvana’s 7)The Man who sold the World, that is in fact a song that was written twenty years earlier when Cobain was only three. When you go back and listen to Bowie’s recording the performance is intrinsically very similar, but by association we think of it as Grunge when Nirvana performs it. Hmmm, we all know that Bowie was ahead of his time, but 20 years?

Enough wanking from me about what is or is not grunge. Damned if I can put my finger on it, but am indeed interested in digging a little deeper into some of the roots of the scene.

From the top of the grunge charts comes Stone Temple Pilots’ 8) Big Empty, from, in retrospect, a pretty crappy album and Pearl Jam’s 9Better Man.

Brian, I applaud you for your eloquent acronym “GLFWEOOOB” to define the limits of your list. I think that Beck’s 10) Looser might fall in to one of the o’s. I remember working with Stuart when that was first released and we both drove in to the job site and had heard it on the radio and said “WHAT WAS THAT!”
Lemonheads, definitely. 11) Bit Part, ‘cause I luv Juliana Hatfields voice in it.

I took a re-listen to Moist’s Silver and, in retrospect, could not believe how derivative it was. Parts of it almost sound like it where lifted. I had never really thought of it as Grunge for some reason… maybe because it was Canadian and I had a very narrow geographical idea of where Grunge came from. Vancouver is after all a good 20 km from Washington State. In any case, I was so big into Moist at the time that I have to give them the nod with 12) Push.

…and here is where things start to go awry and veer off into various obtuse directions.
Lou Reed’s Magic and Loss is another one of my favourite albums from the era. Deep and moving it is at times shocking and 13) Power and The Glory makes the cut for bringing our life full circle and setting us up for the Magic and Loss.

Next comes the Irish Segment of the listification
James: 14) Sometimes. It’s interesting to listen for the influence of the Waterboys in their music, or maybe it’s just the passion of the Irish!

Irish nod number two goes to U2 for coming back and re-defining themselves in 1991 with the release of Achtung Baby, their first full studio release since Joshua Tree. U2 found a new sound, and a new direction for the band that reflected the world that was changing around them. No it ain’t “GLFWEOOOB”, but you can definitely hear the influence and a lot more on 15) Zoo Station

The Waterboys were granted well on their way down hill when they recorded Dream Harder, however, 16) The return of Jimi Hendrix manages so beautifully to capture the energy the artist’s life. The lyrics are pure poetry …stunningly Irish, although I think the album should have be seriously paired down to an ep!

…brings us back full circle to Seattle, the birth place of lord Jimi …now if I could only be clever and somehow tie it all together! I think there is a thread there somewhere though.

And getting progressively further from GLFWEOOOB
The Lowest of the Low – 17) Bleed a Little While Tonight
R.E.M – 18) Texarcana
Counting Crows – 19) Mr. Jones
Tragically Hip – 20) Little Bones

And lastly, and in part because I don’t know how to count or play games by rules, the start of something completely new, but really not that new at all, sort of; US3 – 20) Cantaloop

This list does not reflect, in whole or in part, the views or opinions of the author!

Okay, we've switched to the new blogger. I'm with you both, Stuart and Derek, in that I'm reluctant to switch to something new when something old works well. I always resist upgrading to itunes, because I figure at some point the music transfer or some other feature is going to stop working and I'll curse myself for messing around with a good thing. However, I get the feeling that the longer we hold out, the more we'll be prompted to switch and the slower the 'old blogger' is going to get for us so I've made the change. Not sure whether you'll see this change, or if the choice to upgrade is up to each member/poster. Other than a few tweaks here and there, the interface looks pretty much the same so I'm guessing that most of the changes have been made to the back-end, so the overall performance should improve (less chance of losing those posts, Bri).

Marc, I'm guessing that the issues your client is experiencing stems from the encoding of the music file, but you can explore a little more at the Sonos forum site. I've never used another file format for my ipod but my ears aren't as keen as yours, and have arguably been damaged by years of high volume headphone use. I do like the concept of streaming the music from a central harddrive to different speakers in different rooms of the house, though. I suspect this is how we'll all listen to our music at home very soon.

As for book club tonight, I'll bring my ipod and put together an hour's playlist of music that I think will go well with a Michael Crummey novel. Might be a little tricky, given that I have yet to start the novel, but there many hours left in the day, and I'm planning on leaving work a little early.

The reason i ask the question below about the mp3's, is that a client recently hade an audio system installed, nothing at all over the top (Yamaha receiver) along with a rather cool Sonos mp3 player. As far as i can tell, it is basicly a hard drive which is connected to the receiver and it gets it files loaded on to it from a the home pc. The Sonos has a very cool remote that has an iPod like GUI.

To make a long story short, i had a stack of disks on the job site and Lisa loaded them onto the Sonos via iTunes on her pc an i was astounded at how different the sound quality was when listed against the original cd it was burned from. Dynamic range was down and the soundstage and imaging were very flat compared to the wav. file. ...and i don't even have a very good set of ears!

Was the difference in the mp3's or the Sonos? ...or is there an installation problem with this particular unit? Eager to hear any thoughts you might have on mp3's.

I know, i know; i am supposed to be listening to the music and not the sound, but i feel as if i am only getting 90% of the music.

Stuart, if i am not mistaken, I believe that the host of the site, Kyle, would first have to sign on with the new google blogger before any of his invited guests would be allowed to post with the new blogger; so until he does so, you are off the hook!

Stuart, I am curious about what file formats you are using on your iPod? ... have any of you other iPloders experimented with file formats other than the mp3 ...care to comment on your findings?

Still working on the list, honestly.

Hey Stuart I have my iPod connected to my living room stereo on a regular basis so yes I am set up for your convenience. As for the new vs old blogger I am like you Stuart. If something works then why switch so I haven't tried the new version.

Looks like we're good for Friday February 16th at my place. Still waiting on Marc's list re 1991-1994 but once that's in perhaps I can rip some compilation discs that cover the period.

Are you set up for ipods Derek? it saves me having to bring 8 cds along.... by the way Derek, you and Brian and Kyle are welcome to bring your ipods to Yvettes book club night ,as Yvette falls short in the music host department, and I am set up for it...( not that Im pressuring you Mr Mercer....)
Lads please do comment on my new metabeats blogger question that I asked previously, you may have missed it...Has it worked for you well?
s

Just re-reading earlier posts and I see you're hosting, Derek, which is fine. Hope Ciaran has earplugs.

I'm into bringing some of the classical pieces and Prokofiev is fine with me.

Good to hear about the Courthouse as I muchly dig east-end venues. As much as I enjoy traipsing through the Queen West West and College St. environs, the $20 cab rides seem like so much waste of beer money. I couldn't help but laugh at one of the quotes in the article, specifically,

“The opening week of The Courthouse is a tribute to the Montreal Bistro and Top O' The Senator” states Taylor. “Following in their footsteps, we hope this will become another great home for local and touring artists alike”.

He might have added, "Except we'll try to avoid those footsteps which led to suddenly closing up shop".

16th of Feb shoukd be OK for me too. Also, I'm in for Prokofiev cello music, it's a wonderful piece.

Yawn....well....was a nice little siesta...what day is it.....what?!!?

Okay, a little long since suggesting that we come up with lists and actually posting my own. Some will say that I've just waited until others have posted their lists so that I can agree with some of their choices but split hairs on some choices and come up with tracks that they've missed so that I look especially clever but....really, it's just laziness, and a busy bit of business travel in the last week and a half. If you're looking for examples of the above, look no further than this week's (last week's?) eye magazine, which boldy compiles its critics picks for best music of 2006 in late January. Can't imagine there were that may releases in December that would have prevented a much earlier listing but whatever.

Onto my list, which does include many of the tracks previously listed....

1991-1994 kyliep faves, limited to 20, but no doubt missing some key songs that i'll curse myself for forgetting:

• Rave Down - Swervedriver
• Grey Cell Green - Ned's Atomic Dustbin
• Only Shallow - My Bloody Valentine
• Vapour Trail - Ride
• Mesmerize - Chapterhouse
• Creep - Radiohead
• Obscurity Knocks - Trash Can Sinatras (though I'm more than happy with Brian and Derek's picks here)
• Deluxe - Lush
• Lazy Day/Rodney King - Boo Radleys
• Today - Smashing Pumpkins
• Cannonball - Breeders
• Trigger Cut - Pavement
• Start Choppin' - Dinosaur Jr.
• Animal Nitrite - Suede
• Weirdo - Charlatons UK
• Big Time Sensuality - Bjork
• Whatcha Want - Beastie Boys
• Laid - James
• Sunshine Smile - Adorable

Honourable Mentions: Confetti - Lemonheads, Fait Accompli - Curve, We Are Each Other-The Beautiful South, Sliver-Nirvanna, Interstate Love Song-Stone Temple Pilots, Backwater-Meat Puppets, Loaded-Primal Scream, Connected-Stereo MCs, Hobo Humpin Slobo Babe-Whale, Call Me-Sons of Freedom, Can You Dig It-Mock Turtles, Slide Away-The Verve, Helpless - Sugar, Homeboy-Adorable,Big - New Fast Automatic Daffodils, Mockingbird-Grant Lee Buffalo, Velvet Roof - Buffalo Tom

February 16th looks good for me re: cd club meeting. Where we having it? Could possibly do it at my place...

i believe the 16th of feb is good for me...i have nothing really to add to your lists 91 to 94 , but i wait with baited breath for the compilation....the james laid album is probably my favorite from that era and one of my fave albums of all time...still played regularly...yada yada....I will work on my moist cd compilation for Brian in the meantime....are you lot all using the updated metabeats blogger and if so was the transition without problem, I am always suspicious of changing things that work perfectly well...
s

The 16th works for me ...and yes i am working on a 91-94 list, just takes me a while ...you know the problems i have with lists, don't yawl!

The only date that looks feasible in February given the blackout dates posted by Marc and Brian would appear to be Friday February 16. I would prefer to host it closer to the weekend. Any takers for this date?

On my early morning drive in to work this morning Andy Barrie was talking to a Toronto jazz drummer who mentioned the opening of a new live jazz venue in the city. Check it out.

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/news.php?id=12278

crap, once again with the double posting! sorry. very bizzar, checked before reposting, oh well, must be my manky wireless connection. Derek, don't give up so soon, there are still plenty of days left open in Feb!

I'm game for some beer and music. I'm currently pre booked on Feb. 9, 10, 14, 17, 19, 22-25. I'd also be up for some homework listening ...open to any suggestions.

How does June sound?

I'm game for a evening of beer and music, ooooops, music and beer! I'm prebooked the 9, 10, 14, 17, 19 22-25 of feb

I'll be in the Dominican Republic from February 3rd to 10th. Maybe the week of the 19-26th?

Kyle, where are your 90's songs?

Stuart - where is your list of favourite tracks by Moist?

Hard to believe but it has already been over 3 months since the last CD club. I missed that one and some big changes have occurred in my life in the interim. I was thinking it would be nice to host a CD club at my place sometime in February when we all need something to get us through the worst month of the year (thank god it's the shortest). Are there any dates at this point that definitely don't work for any of you?

And just because it's your birthday on Feb 9 Kyle doesn't mean you can't attend a CD club that night.

Might I suggest also that we start up again the selection of one classical piece to be discussed on the night in question. Please say yea or nay to this suggestion. If the yeas win out I would put forward Prokofiev's "Sinfonia Concertante for cello & orchestra" as a good starting point.

And for those of you who like your music African style might I suggest Salif Keita's 2005 CD M'Bemba. I've listened to many of his records but this is a standout disc.

First run at some 91 -94 (sometimes 95) faves from BD:

I'll loosely group them into "grunge, lo-fi, or with elements of one or both" versus "not". Multiple tracks only when it would be a crime not to.

GLFWEOOOB
Pavement - Gold Soundz, Summer Babe, Grounded ('95)
11th Dream Day - Motherland
The Breeders - Cannonball
Len - Stray (95)
Weezer - My Name is Jonas (not Jonah, strangely)
Sunny Day Real Estate - Seven
Squirrel - My Friend Sally (95)
Sloan - 500 Up
Superchunk - Driveway to Driveway
American Music Club - I've Been a Mess
The Posies - Solar Sister (or anyhting from that record)
Sebadoh - Not too Amused, Think
Juliana Hatfield - Feelin' Massachusetts
Cracker - Low
Buffalo Tom - Treehouse
Cranberries - Zombie
Liz Phair - Divorce Song (or Fuck and Run)
Doughboys - Crush
Flaming Lips - Turn it On
Matthew Sweet - Divine Intervention
Guided By Voices - Echoes Myron
Gandharvas - First Day of Spring
Soundgarden - Fell on Black Days
Rusty - Misogyny
Treble Charger - Red
Seaweed - New Tools
Hazel - Ascension
Lemonheads - My Drug Buddy
Radiohead - Creep
Nirvana - In Bloom, Teen Spirit, Rape Me
Hole - Violet
Teenage Fanclub - What You Do To Me
Superfriendz - Karate Man (95)
Velvet Crush - Hold Me Up
Swell - Song Seven
Belly - Super Connected (early 95)
Veruca Salt - Seether
Offspring - Come Out and Play
Afghan Whigs - What Jail is Like
Moist - Silver (that one's for Stuart)
Pearl Jam - Alive
James - Laid

Not
Trash Can Sinatras - Hay Fever
Grant Lee Buffalo - Fuzzy
Jayhawks - Waiting for the Sun
Walkabouts - Whereabouts Unknown
Red House Painters - Grace Cathedral Park
Frank Black - Old Black Dawning

Great list Derek. I'll take a similar trip through my CD's and come up with my list in the next night or two.

I like the idea of a double cd. I call the 91 to 94 years the "pre cd club era" when I had lost touch with pop music except for ,mainly, the MAJOR grunge acts who were played regularly on commercial radio....If you find you have too many songs to fit 2 cds , it might be better ( in my purely selfish way of thinking) to limit selections to grunge related songs, and not include dance oriented or purley pop tunes. I think there is obviously a lot out there that fits this category and it seems a bit more intellectually rigorous to have this thematic link....but since I am not likely to contribute much I will be happy with whatever you guys decide...

Much silence where 1991-1994 applies so let me get this thing started. I just went through the music I own and have compiled a list of the songs that did it for me during that period. Not all the songs are essential and I'm sure that it can be whittled down to a more formidable group of 10 or 20 songs. I've also limted myself to only 1 track per any given artist with the exception of Ride. Here they are:

Adorable - Sunshine Smile
Beck - Loser
Frank Black - Los Angeles
Beastie Boys - Sure Shot
Blur - Chemical World
Boo Radleys - Rodney King
Billy Bragg - Tank Park Salute
Bjork - Big Time Sensuality
Catherine Wheel - Black Metallic
Chapterhouse - Pearl
The Charlatans - can't Even Be Bothered
Lloyd Cole - So You'd Like to Save the World
The Cranberries - Dreams
The Cure - Friday I'm in Love
Drop Nineteens - Winona
808 State - San Francisco
Frank and Walters - Fashion Crisis Hits New York
Gandharvas - First Day of Spring
Inspiral Carpets - This is How it Feels
James - Laid
Morrissey - Glamorous Glue
My Bloody Valentine - Only Shallow
Ned's Atomic Dustbin - Grey Cell Green
Nine Inch Nails - Closer
Nirvana - In Bloom
Oasis - Live Forever
Pixies - Head On
Pop Will Eat Itself - Dance of the Mad
Posies - Definite Door
Primal Scream - Higher Than the Sun
Pure - Anna
REM - Man on the Moon
Ride - Mousetrap / OX4
Sloan - Bells On
Smashing Pumpkins - Today
Soundgarden - Jesus Christ Pose
Spiritualized - Run
Suede - Animal Nitrate
Superchunk - Driveway to Driveway
Matthew Sweet - Divine Intervention
Swervedriver - Rave Down
Teenage Fanclub - Star Sign
Trash Can Sinatras - Easy Read
Weezer - My Name is Jonah

Thanks for all the input on the grunge scene. Plenty to think about should another CD be required.

Well I think it's a great idea - that period was the last time that I really felt a strong, almost magical, connection to the pop/rock music of the day, and yet I've pretty much eschewed it ever since. This blog exchange has made me aware that I'm primed for a re-visitation, and, hell, I'd even be willing to take on the compilation duties, assuming our Comp Master (DM) is busy rock-a-bye-in'. Two CDs feels about right. I'll let someone else start (a) to gauge interest and (b) because I've gone on at length on the subject already.

No, you're not wrong, Bri. In fact, I'd say yours was a far more eloquent clarification than my call for same. Still not sure how an album that features a song like "Judy Staring at the Sun" can carry anything close to a grunge label but I take your point that bands like CW and others were both influenced by, and owe some degree of their success to, their brethren from the Pacific NW.

In the spirit of reliving the great music of that period (91-94), perhaps we could each come up with a playlist of 20 odd 'quintessential' tracks that define the period for each of us, regardless of whether these tracks are 'classic grunge', 'grunge pop', 'brit pop', 'shoegazer', or 'egregiously bad frat-boy dance music', though I doubt anybody here would stoop to include offerings from the likes of C+C Music Factory or Snap. We could then possibly vote on which tracks we'd like to include in a 2-disc collective, which could then be produced for the group.

I'm thinking this would address Stuart's plea for a schoolin' in all things grunge and would allow us all to relish another list making exercise, with all the preening, pontificating and tough decision making entailed therein. Plus, we haven't put together a box-set in awhile and this seems like a worthy theme.

Whadda you tink?

You're right of course, K, and I'll admit to having taken some liberties in the use of the G word...but I think the remarkable thing about grunge was how the local (tiny, really) NW scene influenced pop and rock music dramatically for a number of years. You still hear it today, though I'm not so interested now.

So when I think of grunge I think, yes, of the growly-voiced chunky-guitared half speed minor chord music from the NorthWest, but also much of the rock and pop music that veered off its natural evolutionary path (for a little while anyway) to pay homage to the honesty and emotional punch that (initially) were fundamentally what made grunge compelling - both sonically, posturally, lyrically. In my mind, grunge "breaking" left enough room for bands like Pavement and Sebadoh to stay true to themselves and suddenly, perplexingly, get enough radio play to become mini pop stars...again, for a little while anyway.

Nevertheless, I was a good boy and didn't list Pavement as a favourite grunge band, because I don't think they have enough of the sonic elements. All of the ones I suggested, in my view, heard grunge and said "ah, that's cool, let's sound a bit like that" (I was guilty of this with my own band).

And I chose that particular Catherine Wheel record because I remember it sounding different, not shoegazer-esque like Chrome, but more poppy, more loud-quiet etc. I may be wrong...it's happened before...

Much as I'm enjoying the grunge discussion, I'd probably make a distinction between core grunge bands, like those predominantly from Seattle (Nirvanna, Mudhoney, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Temple of the Dog, Alice in Chains, Screaming Trees, etc.) and those that are of the grunge era, such as bands like Weezer and the Doughboys, which have a similar grunge guitar sound but don't seem to be coming from the same darker emotional place. I'd say the Breeders aren't technically 'grunge' but are definitely 'grunge era', and 'Cannonball' is an amazing song, love that groovy base line. I like your 'grunge pop' as a sub-class though, bri.

I'd put Catherine Wheel and Swervedriver into the 'Shoegazer' camp (along with Spirtualized, Ride, Slowdive, Lush, My Bloody Valentine, and perhaps Curve), which may be of the grunge era, but seems to be more about creating walls of harmonic distortion than about angst-filled, quiet-loud-quiet, a little more straightforward guitar music, which is how I'd characterize grunge.

Agree with most of you that a Pumpkins track is much needed on the grunge compilation. My suggestion would be for 'Today', 'Cherub Rock', 'Mayonaise' or 'Drown'. Derek, if you chose 'Today', tell your nephew that you expect him to replicate the layered guitars that kick in 10 seconds into the song. And hey, why no Glueleg? I recall you cherishing them so...maybe a post-grunge-avoid list is in order....

I remember when the first Sloan single, "Underwhelmed", was released, they were considered Canada's contribution to grunge but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't include them in that group. You might want to add 'Happy' by hHead, which is a crap song in my opinion but at least gives you some CanCon.

Reading the words, "I Mother Earth" put a smile on my face. Never liked them either but thinking about how I never liked them makes me laugh.

soooooo Brian, do you like Grunge music ? holy jaysus.... looks like I need a seminar in this....

A few others - Doughboys' (Shine or Fix Me); I Mother Earth (I didn't like them but they were pretty big in Cda), Pond, Dig, and best of all Sunny Day Real Estate - first and third records are really, and the obvious track is "Seven" from their first album. If you don't know the SDRA stuff give it a listen, it's stood up pretty well compared to a lot of the stuff from that period.

In terms of the Brits, admittedly there aren't many, I think of Catherine Wheel's "Happy Days" record as having a foot deeply in grunge pop.

Like Weezer....total grunge pop. And the first three records are great. My Name is Jonas.....ah.

Personally I would put "Today" on, since it's more of a pure grunge number, much as I love Disarm.So, maybe I was just more into grunge then the rest of you, but it strikes me that there is at least a whole other disk of music once you start thinking about it...

On the Canadian scene, how about Treble Charger (Red or Even Grable), Ghandarvas (First Day of Spring or Downtime), Rusty, (California, Groovy Dead, Wake Me), Pure (Blast...though it's really grunge pop), Change of Heart (there are a few from there early 90's releases Tummycukle is one album but there's another, though the names escape me), there are other local bands if I think about it....

And on the big stage, bands like Helmet and Tool were huge on the dark nasty side of grunge, whereas on the pop side The Posies Frosting on the Beater is maybe the best record of all (I would suggest Flavour of the Month or Solar Sister, though Dream All Day was a fine single), and you can't dismiss Hole (Miss World or Violet), plus what about the Breeders (Cannonball is a great grunge rock single, or Saints)...I'll scour my collection for more.

(OK, I think I probably was more into grunge then the rest of you)

What was interesting about the grunge phenomenon was it influenced bands who had never rocked out before to plug in their guitars and make big noises - Andrew Cash, for example, make a great loud rocking record called "Hi" in 1993...then retreated back into his shell of country folk when grunge "died" (literally and figuratively). There are numeorus other examples. If you made a guitar record in 1993-1994 it had to rock. Sigh.

Good spotting Stu! i think the track would have to be Disarm.

well you missed my favorite grunge band, smashing pumpkins, any host of songs off siamese or melencholy...other then that your laughin....

Pretty good list. It does indeed take me back, although, i might have been tempted to finish off the disk with a track from the reputed god father of grunge, Neil Young ...perhaps Rockin' in the Free World. Maybe that's the subject of your next disk Derek, "Exploring the Roots of Grunge". Derek Mercer, the new Alan Cross?!

Flashback to 1991-1993 and the world was ruled by all things grunge. Whether you dug it or not there was no avoiding it. Where am I going with this you may ask.

Well my nephew, who is big into playing his guitar, just turned 14 (born in early 1993) and he scored an IPod from his mum for his birthday and as a result I picked up a handy little 400 page book for him titled "The Pocket DJ" which gives you (him) some guidance with respect to cool music lists. There are recommended playlists for the likes of The Smiths, Fela Kuti, Bjork and Neil Diamond for example. And then there are playlists by genre, one of which is grunge. So I figured I would cut him a CD with the IPod friendly grunge playlist and here is the 18 track list:

Nirvana - Lithium
Hole - Miss World
Pearl Jam - Jeremy
Soul Asylum - Runaway Train
Soundgarden - Black Hole Sun
Pearl Jam - Evenflow
Screaming Trees - Nearly Lost You (my personal fave)
Stone Temple Pilots - Plush
Nirvana - Come as You Are
L7 - Pretend We're Dead
Mudhoney - Touch Me I'm Sick
Stone Temple Pilots - Big Empty
Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit
Bush - Everything Zen
Alice in Chains - Rooster
Nirvana - Heart Shaped Box
Everclear - Santa Monica
Bush - Glycerine

3 tracks that were listed in the book didn't make the cut due to CD space limitations but I don't think he's missing much leaving out Temple of the Dog, Candlebox and Babes in Toyland.

So here's the thing are there any primo grunge tracks that they've missed out on here? The list is solely US based with the exception of Bush. Were there no other UK grunge bands (Swervedriver??) or even Canadian standouts? What I'm thinking is if he likes this CD I may be required to come up with a second one in a similar vein.

Pretty much the only place where I require a real human in a retail setting these days is at Starbucks where they still won't let me jump over the counter and make myself a latte. Understandable on their part. Otherwise the human factor in selling me something is incredibly overrated as for the most part I'm usually way more informed than the underpaid and largely uninterested staff.

thanks for the info.....another point , spun off Dereks comment bout only going to Soundscapes for Jazz.....is that the same for you others...I mean , sniff, sniff does it really mean, sniff, that its over for the cd and record stores? I think there is still a spot for places staffed with learned people like Soundscapes , in that they vet the music, so its a bit like an online review website like pitchfork, except you actually see real humans....

Just to add a dissenting voice, my approach is a little different. What I tend to do is use my 65 a month to sample music I'm unfamiliar with - so, three or four songs from a band/album, chosen by listening, and/or by allmusic's choices for best cuts off the album, and then live with it for a month. If I'm into it at that point then I'll download the whole thing. Allows me to try fifteen or twenty new things with my monthly subscription, and then filter out the stuff that doesn;t work for me. Having said that, when the critics are all over something and it's available on emusic I will often just throw caution to the wind and download it - yes, I am that uninhibited.

forgot to add, thanks to marc for the gotan project reminder in your . it turns out i own lunatico, having downloaded it months ago, but completely forgot about it. am just discovering it now and enjoying it quite a bit. not a lot of new ground, but effectively conjures up fond memories of sipping beer on a patio in france (translation: they use accordians).

i'm with derek on the mostly album download. i don't find that listening to the 30 second track snippet is all that helpful. even downloading an individual song which may be great won't necessarily give you a good representation of the disc. a case in point is the serena maneesh disc, which isn't all as great as the the one pretty awesome song, (with which i know you're familiar since i put it on almost all of your xmas discs) 'drain cosmetics' would suggest.

so exclaim is a good reference point, as is pitchfork, and other online review sites. i'll usually have a few browser windows open and will go back and forth, searching emusic for artists i've read about at allmusic or elsehwere. if you want to download some free individual tracks, try sites like betterpropaganda.com , salon , or insound which usually offer a hit or two per band and have a good selection of artists. at some point, though, it's a leap of faith and i either end up with treasure (the submarines) or trash (herbert) but at $3.00 or less a cd, it's not going to be too much of a hit in the pocketbook.

not sure if you're using emusic but for those who are and haven't done so already, they have a two-track sinead o'conner disc for free. i like both tracks quite a bit.

Hey Stuart I tend to download only entire albums solely based on what I read on-line and off-line. Very rarely do I preview tracks and even less often do I download individual songs. The only exception might be with a classical CD where I'm only interested let's say in a string quartet and want the 4 movements that comprise it and am not interested in the other tracks that make up the rest of the disc. With my subscription giving me 65 donwloads per month it doesn't make sense to pick and choose songs and I'd rather listen to the album in the way the band intended it to be heard.

I'm not sure which service your using but I find with e-music that Exclaim magazine is a really good reference point for many of the albums that I download and end up enjoying. What I'm finding these days is that my trips to Soundscapes have dwindled to maybe once every 3 or 4 months as I can get all the obscure pop/rock/electronic CDs on-line. Pretty much the only things I shop for in a brick and mortar store now are jazz and classical which to my mind are still fairly weakly represented in the on-line format.

so now I am in the ipod world , and have a subscription to one of these monthly download services , I was wondering about stategies for selecting songs...On the one hand its great to be able to download a wide range of tracks from bands whose music you are not sure about without the expence of an entire cd price, but doesnt one tend to preview the individual tracks prior to purchasing them , so that in a way you end up taking the tracks that have an initial appeal only.?? Or do you read reviews which talk about the better tracks off a disc? What do you people do?

“Rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated”

...now if you will pardon me as I dust myself off after crawling out from under a massive rock, or should I say slabs of limestone, granite and skids of cherry ply…

Frankly it’s been hard for me to get into any new music recently. I seem to have spent much of my time in the past year removed from my primary source of all things different, CKLN. It would seem that their 10w transmitter can’t quite reach the likes of Orillia and Glen Abbey. I spent much of the year acquiring some older music and making an unsuccessful attempt to learn about all things great in jazz. …I’m still working on it! I might try and post an addenda in 2007 or 2008. (haha!)

I don’t think that anything I bought that was released in 2006 is going to stand the test of time and be one of those albums in my collection that i can’t be without. Did I miss that much? Was it a lousy year for music? Am I just getting old and out of the loop?

Some notables that I actually did enjoy and think are well worth a listen:

Sergio Mendes, Timeless
Electrolane, Rock it to the Moon (2005)
Yo La Tengo, I am not afraid of you and I will beat your ass
Jamaica to Toronto, Soul Funk & Reggae
Soledad Brothers, The hardest Walk
Konono #1, Congotronics (2004)
Gotan Project, Lunatico (If any album is a must have, it is this one. Includes some very interesting work with Calexico)
Dirty Three (don’t own it but will)
Grupo Fantasma, Moviniento Popular (2004)

…but I must admit that no disks found their proverbial grooves worn thin through endless play as is the norm.

Favourite singles:
Crazy, Gnarles Barkley, (St. Elsewhere)
I got cash, Lati Kronland & Sylvester (from the Brooklyn Funk Essentials, Make ‘em like it) This is such a hilarious track you have got to check it out for yourself. DUMB FUCK! (actually released in 2000!)

…ah, if only I had a tiny bit of time to put together a couple of compilations.

Other musings on the year:

Worst concert of the year: Calexico and friend @ the Docks
Best Concert of the year: Calexico @ the Phoenix

What I would most like to ask of a rock star: Mr Dylan, what motivates you to do this year after year? Certainly there must be something else that you would rather be doing with your life than playing the same brilliant tunes over and over again in soulless and lacklustre arrangements with a band of musician you don’t seem to be able to communicate with or relate to? That having been said, Bob, I did like a couple of the cuts you performed from your new album; they were fresh and you actually put some of your heart into them. …but really. What’s with the endless tour? …is it some kind of drug for you that numbs pain? … why do you do it? Unlike other “rock stars” you don’t look like you even enjoy the adulation!

Best to all in the New Year.

final pre christmas thoughts:

1-marc, are you still alive, man? your christmas disc is in the mail...look for it next week. stu, bri, big daddy d...i'm bringing yours to bettys tomorrow.

2-any comments on the pitchfork list? i had the usual, logically inconsistent reactions...a tiny thrill of validation when one of my faves was chosen (they are so right), immediately followed by scorn derision when something i hated (they know nothing, nothing!), was also lauded. have any of you ever bought an lcd soundsystem disc? for some reason, this band seems to make 2 to 3 per year and they're always included on pitchfork's year end list. also, for all the music that i think i've heard over the past year, i'm still way behind. it's fun playing catchup, though.

joyeux noel.

i just happened to have 13 remaining downloads, the total number of 'The Thrill of the Hunt' disc, so i picked it up, figuring it to be a sign of some kind. going through the first listen right now. lyrically and vocally closer to neutral milk but the quieter guitar strumming is reminiscent of earlier elliot smith and heatmiser. i'm doing a lot updating of spreadsheets and other somewhat tedious work today so i'm enjoying listening to some interesting music in the background.

also occasionally looking around for any albums that would qualify for 'worse' covers and realize that there are far more good covers than bad. for example, if you troll through the list of albums released in 2006 at metacritic.com, you'll see what i mean.

found a more interesting set of 'best of' lists at popmatters.com. most of the hip-hop is what i'm seeing in most places but the indie list contains many unfamiliar artists, and there are plenty of free mp3 links and youtube clips for each entry. just realized that if i ever decide to pursue a music career, it will be in electronic music, where the competition isn't as fierce; if herbert and the latest basement jaxx (a truly godawful album) can make a best of list, pretty much anybody can. enjoy.

Another record I really enjoyed (but forgot) from 2006 was Kind of Like Spitting's - The Thrill of the Hunt. This is really a one-man show, the guy's name is Ben Barnett, who's released six or seven records since 2000. He's essentially a folk writer who sometimes rocks out, sings and performs in Neutral Milk Hotel meets Elliott Smith fashion, and is a pretty compelling writer. Never heard of him until this year, discovered through Pandora (my favourite site five days a week) and explored more through emusic. Well worth a listen.

worst album covers of 2006, courtesy of pitchfork. kind of a bland list. surely there are worse. i'll try to dig some up myself. as for best, i kind of like the cover of thom yorke's solo disc, which is reminiscent of an edward gorey poster.

OK, so it turns out that many of my fave 2006 disks were released in 2005. I was afraid of that, so just checked before launching myself at my best of list. Ah well..... (bloody rug rats are keeping me from being optimally cool). I will list them anyway because they were still the ones I purchased and enjoyed most this year. Hoping none of them was on your best of 2005 because then I'd really feel schmuck-esque.

Novillero - Aim Right for the Holes in Their Lives (June 05) - some of the best song writing, arranging, and performance of power pop in years.

The High Dials (July 05) - the second best songwriting, arranging and perfomance of power pop in years. I mean it, this is fantastic stuff. The Holy Ground is a song for the ages, to be featured on my best songs of this (OK, last) year. This band has more JOY in it then I have in my little finger - or something like that. Sure makes me feel good. Thanks to Kyle for pointing me/us at this one on the blog early in 2006 (OK maybe late 2005).

The Silver Jews - Tanglewood Numbers...sort of Malkmus meets Stephen Merritt meets Lou Reed delivery...these guys have been around for a while but hadn't released a record for a few years when this came out in October (I mean, come on, it was OCTOBER) 2005. It's great.

Yo La Tengo - I am Not Afraid ....hey, a 2006 record! I think this is very strong stuff, bringing the usual disparateness and great songs. The only question with YLT is are they still "relevant" in the way they were ten years ago. Certainly I enjoy the music a lot, but it doesn't astound me like Electropura and I Can Hear The Heart did. The moral is, it's hard being a pop star, 'cause things are often not judged purely for what they are.

Eleventh Dream Day - Zeroes and Ones....OK, I'm rolling now. ANOTHER 2006 record for the big guy. No, don't congratulate me....unlike YLT, this band, which has been around longer (like, 23 years?) still manages truly to kick my ass every time they release something. This one's no exception - simple-ish songs delivered with urgency and heart. Even their irony sounds like they mean it. Heartfelt irony, if you will. Great flipped out guitar solos and Chicago midwest drawls on their oft-shared girl boy vocals. Reminds me of a non-quirky Feelies sometimes (another old fave of mine), in terms of their construction of songs from the bass and drum groove up.

I also love the Kingsbury Manx one that Kylie listed. Quite a unique band this, making music that is not particularly in style, doesn't feel that much like other quiet folk, country rockers...I hear some early seventies influences like CSN. And the National record (Alligator) is a fine 2005 release, though I am slightly more troubled by what I feel are its pretensions.

TV On the Radio - Return to Cookie Mountain. Uber cool record. These guys are working in a creative space on their own (as far as I know). A fascinating channeling of influences, technologies and technique with a strong enough vision to tie it together into a digestable piece of art. Makes me think of the Books (another '05er that I discovered this year....dammit) only in that they are consciously trying to break down boundaries and create new music. The Books sound nothing (much more self-conscious basement-studio music) like this but their last record is well worth investigating.

The Young People - All at Once. Incredibly moody, dark, mostly quiet, but with the occassional Sonic Youth dissonant moment...I really like this band. This year's record might not be my favourite (go with the first, eponymous one from 2003) but it's still very interesting.

I also spent a lot of time catching up on small-label music from 2000 - 2004 or so, thanks primarily to emusic. Some of my recommendations from that process are Movietone and The Microphones (these references are mostly for posterity, as I already spoke of and played both of these at CD clubs).

I don't know all of the music that was on your lists but will for sure check it out in due course. I can say that I thought the Cat Power record was a little boring for Chan compared to her previous. I have only a very small soft spot for quiet country music, and it seems there is a plethora of it right now, so I've stopped giving artists the benefit of the doubt. Same is true for me of M Ward's latest- I love a few of the songs (Right in the Head for example) but the production grates a bit on me (way too much reverb on the vocals and drums), and I think many of the songs are frankly dull. If you're going to have soft simple country songs then the lyrics and vocals need to step up to create the connection or else it can become trite (Stuart, I'm waiting.....). So I found the record uneven.

I didn't buy much in the way of new classical or new jazz this year I don't think. Still mining chestnuts that I'm more interested in right now.

I'll get back at this next week with songs and other stuff.

my bad. i had mistaken 'make the cut' for 'make the grade'. thanks for the clarification, as i was beginning to regret including a mountain goats song on your disc.

the end-end lists are beginning to appear online. here is the onion/av club's various best of lists. not that much different from what we've shared thus far.

also, rollingstone (are they still around) have their list of best songs, most of which i've never heard. not sure in this case that i'm too worried.

I guess my rant in error had nocked Brian out of metabeats, I will have to buy him a beer now .....Kyle the emily haines (thanks to you) and the Gonsalves disc would probabl;y make it to my list...I went back last night to gop through what i bought last year and I had forgotten about the Ascobi disc which I picked up at soundscapes a few weeks back and reallly love...(I was planning on bringing it to the next cd club as I new you and Derek love that shoegazer stuff...damm you both) The Junior Boys disc aklso makes it....I played that for Marc and he and mary Ellen flat out rejected it....just shows to go you....I TOTALLY agree on the Kaos, I simply dont get it, but Derek you must pick up the previous disc Kyle referred to as it may be my favorite Hip hop disc ( although its kinds hip hop / pop) Its amazing how the new one sucks so much....I like what I hear on the beck disc as someone at the office plays it, I will get it shortly...
My classical and jazz lists and more concert faves next.....

Please note that the title "missed the cut" is an indication of 5 albums that I enjoyed very much but if I'm creating a top 10 list I had to unfortunately leave them off. Thus Asobi Seksu, Beck etc are some of my favourites from 2006. So there was no about face on my part. Hope that clarifies the situation.

I should have posted earlier. Now it looks like I’m cribbing from the notes of Messrs. Watson and Mercer. Damn!

Reflecting on the list, it appears I’m either mellowing considerably with age or the pop world has failed to provide me with a sufficient array of rock-all-out selections. Let's go with the latter.

Derek, I think you nailed the overrated albums. Can’t believe all the press for Herbert, which annoyed me from the get-go and had me clicking ‘Move to Recycle Bin’ after 2 or 3 listens. Loved the 2004 K-os album. The new one kind of sucks, which I attribute to the fact that it's played regularly on both CBC’s Metro morning and Here and Now, which consistently praise shite music.

However, I do like Asobi Seksu. I must point out--but not in an aggressive, Stuart-style nail your ass to the wall tone--that you recommended I download this album a few weeks ago. Did you have a change of heart after repeated listens or you were trying to get me to blow some of my allotted monthly downloads? Either way, I’m happy with it so no harm done. Not a profound record by any means but a pretty nice, airy, poppy record with sweet, Lush-meets-Pizzicato-Five by way of Liz Fraser of the Cocteau Twins vocals (like my Pitchfork impersonation?).

Onto the list:

Best

Jose Gonzalez - Veneer – Hurray Stuart for introducing me to this artist and this album, which has such a quiet, beautiful integrity to it.

Patrick Watson – Close to Paradise

I brought his first album to Stuart’s in the spring; this is his most recent and is a little more varied than his other work. At times, his voice reminds me of Rufus Wainwright, at other times Grant Lee Buffalo, at other times M. Ward, though his music recalls a dreamier, more ethereal Devendra Banhart. I could try to cram a few more names into this review but I think you get the idea.

Emily Haines & the Soft Skeleton – Knives Don’t Have Your Back
I’ve never been that big a fan of Metric, as I’ve often found their lyrics and sound a little bracing. This set of polished, predominantly piano-driven lullabies complement her warmer, sophisticated vocals and I dug it big time.

Neko Case – Fox Confessor Brings the Flood
Can she do any wrong? Methinks not. From the first listen, I knewthis was going to be one of my favourites of the year and it has not disappointed on repeated listens. She can belt out a heart-on-your sleeve lyric without sounding self-absorbed (see singer-songwriter discussion from a few months back) or precious (see Newsom below).

Cibelle- The Shine of Dried Electric Leaves
Though the English songs detract from the album as a whole, those sung in Portuguese are beautiful and more than compensate.

TV on the Radio – Return to Cookie Mountain
Easily the most interesting album of the year, with some songs sounding like musical experiments (the opening I Was a Lover veers from off-skilter syncopation to ear-splitting distortion to a dub-interlude), flat out rockers (Wolf Like Me), to Peter Gabriel impersonations (Dirtywhirrl).

Beach House – Beach House
Kind of sounds like a cross between Stereolab and Mazzy Starr, with occasionally more heartfelt vocal expressions than either of these reference points. Only discovered this one in the last month and it’s very much a winter-album, so may explain be why I’m enjoying it so much.

M. Ward – Post-War
An album which caused me to go back and listen more closely to his earlier work. My only complaint is that it’s only 37 minutes long and I could do with a more Sufjan-sized helping.

The Submarines – Declare a New State!
Pretty songs about breakup and unhappiness and sunshine and rain that don’t push any boundaries but aren’t overly sweet, with some nice arrangements. Very similar to artists like Stars or the Delgados.

Best Songs:

Crazy/Gnarls Barkley
Wildcat/Ratatat
Hang Me Up to Dry/Cold War Kids
SexyBack/Justin Timberlake
Wolf Like Me/TV on the Radio
Black Swan/Thom Yorke
The Funeral/Band of Horses
Woke Up New/The Mountain Goats
Drain Cosmetics/Serena Maneesh
Chinese Translation/M.Ward

One final note on the best list: expect to find some or all of these artists on your Christmas cds, which were completed yesterday and will be delivered this Friday evening at book club.

Best Comebacks/

Tie: Yo La Tengo & Belle and Sebastian

Best 2005 albums that I discovered in 2006/

The Kingsbury Manx-The Fast Rise and Fall of the South (with a tip of the hat to Brian, who brought it to a meeting)
The National – Alligator

Huh?:
Joanna Newsom-Ys – No

Have to say that 2006 was another interesting year in music, discovering interesting new bands (The Drift, Nomo, Islands) and welcoming back some old faves like the always underrated Lloyd Cole. Couldn't really say there was a specific direction in music this year and for me that's always a good thing and it's probably reflected in the albums that make my best of list which is as follows:

Neko Case - Fox Confessor (I still think Neko has a wall-to-wall brilliant record in her and I look forward to it but this came the closest so far)

Calexico - Garden Ruin (after seeing them at the Docks I wasn't sure these guys had much left in the tank but this was a brilliant return to form, sadly overlooked)

Nils Peter Molvaer - An American Compilation (hardly the greatest title for an album but it does tell you exactly what you're getting. Norwegian trumpeter who works with the likes of Eivind Aarset and Rune Arnesen and yes it's electronic jazz and very fine)

TV on the Radio - Return to Cookie Mountain (their 2003 EP and 2004 LP had moments of brilliance but who knew they had this in them. My fave of 2006 and a record that like Cormac McCarthy's latest dark book stays with you for days and days)

Junior Boys - So This is Goodbye (never understood the hubub over their 2004 release but this one I got in a big way. "In the Morning" is the "Destroy Everything You Touch" for 2006. Assuming the kids still dance? this should keep them on the floor)

Belle and Sebastian - The Life Pursuit (It's been 8 years since I liked a B&S album this much but it was worth the wait. There are a few missteps "The Blues are Still Blue" and "Sukie in the Graveyard" but the remainder more than makes up for it.

Manu Katche - Neighbourhood / Martin Speake - Change of Heart - I'm cheating here by putting 2 picks as 1 but they're both on ECM and in a similar languid but challenging jazz style. Katche is a French drummer and Speake a British saxophonist and both their combos make beautiful 21st century jazz with players like Tomasz Stanko, Bobo Stenson and Paul Motian in the mix.

Gabriela Montero - Piano Recital (a young Venezuelan pianist plays beautiful music by Rachmaninov, scriabin, liszt and others in a disc that came out in 2005. The real bonus is the 2nd CD of jazz style improvisations on classical pieces. Brilliant stuff and it sells for the price of a single CD.)

Field Music - self-titled - another disc from 2005 that I came late to. Really the only true indie pop record that appears on my list. Fans of the Shins, High Llamas, Apples in Stero should give them a spin.

Easy All Stars - Radiodread - yes Radiohead's music done in reggae fashion. Sounds like a terrible concept but it really works. Listen to "Airbag", the Specials like sound of the horns in "Paranoid Android" and "Let Down" sung with upbeat, infectious reggae stylin.

Albums that didn't quite make the cut - Beck, The Mountain Goats, Asobi Seksu, Califone and The Knife.

Terribly Overrated - Ghostface Killah, K-Os, Herbert and most definitely Danielson, the most annoying record of 2006.

Disappointments - Destroyer, Cat Power

Haven't finished my list yet but it will likely contain some of the albums listed here. If you haven't yet subscribed to this podcast yet, I recommend it. The conversation is particularly interesting whenever they have a panel discussion.

Cat Power's The Greatest is one of those discs which hasn't quite clicked for me. It's bound to be on many a top 10, or even top 5 of the year but I guess I'm amongst those who find the admittedly professionally sounding music a little too conservative or polished, how you say...without ze edge....for my liking.

How can you say you liked Cache, Brian, when only a few posts ago you ripped it for being....okay, thought I'd riff on the stuart gaffe a bit....glad you enjoyed it. We must discuss it soon.

i really should proofread my stuff...the decemberists reference at the front of my list was trying to refer to last years favorites , where the decemberists album and concert were my favorites....

OK so best albums of 2006;
For me hands down my favorite album and concert was Band of Horses...(interesting how for me my favoerite disc was also my favorite concert with the Decemberists)
Band of Horses to me does it all....sincere heart on your sleeve stuff , but not cloying....interesting lyrics that stand up after repeated listenings.. I dont know that they bring in anything all that new and the lead vocals are perhaps a little too much the sound of the band , which might make the next album difficult to build upon, but the songs are so damn good that I cant stop listening to it...
second best album for me would be cat Power the greatest....wherein our heroine pulls together a tight nashville band to bring out all the nuances of her insecure songwritting abilities...Though I like bits of her earlier work a great deal, this album is consistent all the way through and agin the songs are the main strength...
Sure the band is professional ( to a fault for some) but for me its about the songs and though I have a soft spot for the nashville sound , I dont think it matters with this record...her doing all the songs solo like her show at Lees did just that and though it had a few weak moments , those renditions were very strong too...
Albums by Sparklehorse, decemberists , M.Ward (thanks Kyle)and Neko Case all worked for me this year and though I have multiple albums from these bands, and though they dont offer anything new from their old sounds ...they can keep cranking them out if they keep up the consistently high quality songs.....
I will add more albums later.....we should all try for 10 as some of our lessor faves might be good for others amongst us...

Stu, who loves ya baby.

Kylie, emusic actually has a pretty decent collection of classical. Not sure how much time you've spent looking so you may already know this....I find it's best to choose by composer -Janacek's sinfonietta, a lovely piece as Derek pointed out, is available, just as an example. As long as you have some idea what you're looking for you often find it. It's mostly Naxos on emusic but that label is much better than it used to be.

And, pardon the rambling, but Janacek's other chamber music is outstanding - his solo piano music is somber and gorgeous, and his string quartets are among the finest you'll find. In fact, I would argue that a Best of the Czechs, from Smetana and Fibich down through Dvorak, Janacek, and Suk is about as good as classical music gets. Nothing like a downtrodden culture to create good art (though the Poles appear to have leaner pickings...well, other suppose there's Szymanowski, who also has beautiful piano music and fine symphonic work).

Starting to think about my best of the year as well, though it has mostly been a year of accumulating music from other periods, and a really low film-seeing year. I'm sure I have a few. Kyle - I saw Cache the other day and loved it. What a fantastic film.

oops...damn I guess i shopuld read more carefully, the quote on the 8th is actually by Mr Mercer.....damn I had such a smug look on my face when I was nailing Brian to the wall there....I should have known it was too easy.....well Brian , I will eat humble pie and try with your shortlist of symphonies and see if I can be moved.....

sorry Brian, I cant let this go....(you know i love a debate)....On the 8th you said "I cant think of a single symphony that I turn to when looking to be thoroughly moved by a classical piece" yet on the 11th you say "and you guys who cant find a favorite symphony are missing out....." for me if it dont move me, it cant be a favorite, or at least to me a favorite of a list of classical pieces that dont move me is somewhat irrelevant....sort of like my favorite Van Halen songs list ....(please no letters about how great van halen are.....)

An admitted greenhorn when it comes to classical music, I find that I also lean towards the quieter chamber pieces and the concertos. I'll have to branch out and start trying some more symphonies. For Shosto, I probably most familiar with his 8th String Quartet and Cello Concerto No 1 so these would currently be among my 'faves'.

Merci, Monsieur Mercer (3 pts for alliteration, 2 for french) for the tip on Lilburn. I’ve been looking to download a few more classical pieces from emusic but haven't been sure about any of the recordings. May have to pick up a guidebook on classical over the holidays.

Haven't seen this much buzz about physical attributes of a female performer since stuart brought the carla bruni disc to the cd club. But, you may well ask, which of the two wins a googlefight?

As for end of year picks, I'm hoping to post these sometime this week. I will include a list of favourite songs, albums, films, and possibly books. I'll also link to any articles with interesting end of year selections.

Actually, Derek, I was looking for your favourite Shostakovich music. I often have trouble with the English language....so thanks. I'll come up with a brief list of favourite classical pieces in a separate note.

Some of my favourite Shosta music is: the 24 Preludes and Fugues (piano), the Bolt Overture, Cello Concerto #1, the Piano Trios #1 and 2, Symphony Numbers 1, 5, and 10, and String Quartets 8 and 12.

And you guys who can't find a favourite symphony are missing out! I love the concertos, and the chamber and smaller pieces too, like you, probably more overall, but some composers were at or near their best in symphonies - Brahms, Sibelius, Bruckner, Shostakovich, Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, and to debatably even Beethoven and Mozart. Bah! Hayden is a total yawner in my opinion but even he had some great symphonic moments! Particularly his London symphonies.

Hey Stuart, couldn't agree with you more where Ms Grimaud is concerned. She should be a French movie star. I've yet to see a bad picture of her in any of the magazines or CD covers she appears on. Anyone ready to start posting their 10 fave discs of the past year? Any definitive list toppers out there?

by the way Brian I just picked up Grimaud ( man aoh man she makes me hurt)
doing Schumanns piano concerto (rather then me unfortunately) ....only listened a few times but it has potential....glad to see its on your shortlist...

I gotta say, the symphonys or symphonics works in general just dont rock my boat either....
My current faves for larger scale works are all concertos....Vengerovs Shostakovitch Violin, Sibelious violin, Brahms Piano #2, but I really have a soft spot for the etherial sparseness of solo Violin or cello partitas Bach, or Chausson poem (op25) or Grieg solo piano...etc......Shostakovitch sure takes a thumping from the press in general, even on his centennial...pour guy ...Id like to see the critics trying to cope with Stalin as their boss...

Some classical favourites of mine include Chopin's Piano Nocturnes, great late night listening music, Bizet's L'Arlesienne Suite No.2, Ysaye's six solo violin sonatas, Schubert's masterful piano quintet in C major, Janacek's Sinfonietta which I've listened to about 20 times since only really hearing it for the first time at the CD club, Schumann's Piano Concerto, Britten's Phantasy Quartet, Barber's Cello Concerto and pretty much any of Saint-Saen's 5 Piano Concertos.

Strangely enough although it was complete symphonic music that drew me to classical music in the first place I can't really think of one symphony that I turn to when I'm looking to be thoroughly moved by a classical piece.

FYI in last month's BBC Music magazine the recording selected as the orchestral CD of the month was a Naxos disc of works by New Zealand's late and most renowned composer Douglas Lilburn. It is also a disc of the month in December's Gramophone. This disc is available for download at e-music and at 75 minutes and only 7 tracks is a steal.

If you listen at all to CBC Radio Two, then you're aware that 2006 is the centenary of Shostakovich's birth. You might have known that anyway. They're playing lots of his music currently (focusing it in a few week period) which has been awfully nice, as I personally am a fan. Washing the dishes, just as an example, is a much more rewarding task when accompanied by a Shosta Cello Concerto. I have a bunch of his output on record but nowhere near a complete collection, and have heard a number of pieces, primarily chamber, that were new to me. And gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous.

On that note, for those among us who are classically inclined, how about a brief list of some favourites.

stuart, it's probably better to listen via itunes, which is generally more stable than the website and plug-in (real player, windows media) option. itunes is a free download (suggestion, de-select the two email box options so you don't have to enter an email address).

once it is downloaded and installed (shouldn't be more than a few minutes), you can choose the 'Radio' option from the menu on the left, then click on the arrow to the left of the 'Eclectic' category. KCRW is among the choices, listed alphabetically. KCRW music will get you just the music played on the station. KCRW simulcast will play what's on live, which includes all the NPR (talk) programming, also quite good.

just tried the kcrw site, which looks a lot brighter than the previous, black and green incarnation. i moved my mouse over 'Music' on the yellow-orange menu bar, then clicked 'KCRWmusic.com' from the drop-down menu that appears. in the middle of the screen, to the top-right of the picture of the washed-out-charlie-watts-looking nic harcourt is a little headphones icon with the word 'Listen' beside it. when i clicked on this, it launched that little real-player window, which did play a 15-second ad, but then went right into music.

anyhow, hope it helps.

btw...anyone notice that the who played last night? i saw a clip of their show on the morning news and i've gotta say...they were completely dreadful. an elderly drunk man who's just had his balls kicked in would have belted out a finer vocal performance of 'i can't explain' than roger and pete croaked out. who still goes to see this s-h-i-fucking-t? good god.

It may be my ludite capabilities with computers but the KCRW morning becomes eclectic website is driving me crazy...I used to be able to hit the "listen w realplayer button " and stream the previous days show with no problem but now you get 3 options at the top of the morning becomes eclectic page....listen live, listen, and something else and none of them get you the show (it throughs you to a different show entirely), and when you go to past shows an advertisement comes up saying listen on demand to previous days show, but there is no button to click to do so.....do you now need to subscribe to access this? any of you having better luck... its my favorite site

Yeah I bought This is Anita last year second hand for $10. Got lucky on that one I guess. I tend not to mention it only because it was the last of many orchestral recordings of her that I own and so I haven't spent as much time with it yet. And I still think the Peterson disk tops all of them (wait, did I say that already?). I will track down Cool Heat, Stu, thanks for the tip.

I have to echo Brians sentiments about Anita Oday.....One of my faves as well, though I might give Billy and sarah the nod over her.....I have generally the same Oday records Brian has, but I also have 2 others (mid fiftys) which are my favorites....The essential ( Brian you may want to get this too) is This is Anita with the heartrenching take of wHEN A nightingale sang in Berkely square (one of my fave songs ), amongst other great performances..the other disc is Cool heat , which is also perfect straight through , mixing well known (mack the knife) with great lesser known (to me) songs...These 2 discs would be my recommended starting point. but you will have to pay, I think they are only available as japenese imports....Sorry to here shes gone....It may make more sence for me to digitise this vynle for all of you, I just have to get my tecnology together....

Hey Kyle I wouldn't bother with any of the Anita O'Day offerings on the e-music site. As with a lot of jazz available on their site it isn't really up to snuff with the best of her material. You might want to check out the new Max Richter CD (Stuart can give you some words of wisdom on his earlier release) or the Toronto based band Woolly Leaves which I've read some good things about.

Very much appreciated input, bri. I put "Odessey and Oracle" on my christmas list so I'm hoping that Santa comes through. Any of the Anita O'Day offerings at emusic seem interesting? None stood out for me, but I'm again away from home and my Penguin and Rough Jazz Guides don't travel well so perhaps I'm missing the opportunity to snatch up a few gems with my remaining dowloads for the month. I may just have to go to one of those places where you can buy music on these shiny discs in plastic wrapping.

Two links, to get you through your day:

The first, is a Slate.com article about Pitchfork, which attempts to explain why music lovers hate but read the site (short version: we like confrontation).

The second, is a clip from the Ricky Gervais show "Extras", which features David Bowie hilariously demonstrating his song-writing process, at the expense of poor Ricky. First embedding attempt...

So I stopped checking for blogs after a few weeks, since the BD blog-compulsion had become almost masturbatory....what with Kylie travelling, Derek daddying, Marc remaining strong/silent, and Stuart sticking to his strength as a blog-counterpuncher, well, I was tired of blogging with myself. But anyhoo, glad to see some life in the old girl yet (am I mixing metaphors?).

And Derek - since reading your blog, I've been racking my brains trying to remember when you and I saw Anita O'Day sing in the past six months :) (and it hasn't come to me....so are you sure she's dead?)

I will chime in on the raging Joanne Newsome debate with a strong "no thanks", based on the few samples I've done, and let one of you (Stuart, it sounds like) convince me of the error of my ways.

And today I get to blog on Anita and The Zombies. fun fun fun.....

Anita O'Day is my favourite jazz singer - her voice the perfect mix of scratchy world weariness ala Billie Holiday, tongue-in-cheek-we-all-know-this-is-just-a-song jazz irony, and, yet, heartbreaking, soul-searching sadness. Doesn't have the pipes of say, Sarah Vaughan or Ella, or the come-hither sexiness of Helen Merrill or June Christy....more of a blend of the above, and still unique and utterly unmistakeable. If you haven't spent any time with her music, you've kinda got to (sorry, you have no choice). I have a number of her recordings, mostly from the mid-late fifties. My favourite is her stripped-down session with the Oscar Peterson trio called "Anita Sings the Most". Much of the rest of her ouevre is working with medium to large bands, all of which is good, and some fantastic. Of these, I would go with This is Anita, AOD Sings the Winners, and Pick Yourself Up, all released within a few years of each other.

Re the Zombies, true enough there is really only one album, Odessey and Oracle, in my view one of the top three or four pop records of all time. It's been described as "the Zombies' Pet Sounds", but I think it makes mince meat out of Pet Sounds. The quality and variety of song, and the beauty of their performance are extraordinary throughout. The Zombies were an anomaly - way too sophisticated to be lumped in with the other British Invasion pop bands of the 64/65 timeframe with their strong jazz influences combined with choral harmonies and incredible melodies (not to mention interesting lyrics), but that's where they ended up. The band didn't last long as a result, record companies looking for hits that they couldn't hear, and broke up in '67, just after the release of Odessey and Oracle. The album wasn't released in the States until a year later, and Time of the Season didn't chart until almost two years after their demise. Anyway, buy it, full stop, and then we'll talk some more.

However, by only picking up that record you're missing out on some great songs (incl Tell Her No and She's Not There), which would best be found on one of the numerous singles compilations out there. Those of us who like Belle and Sebastien will hear clear influences in the Z's earlier material, with Colin Blunstone's breathy vocals, simpler arrangements then on O&O, and often that groovy jazz compositional underpinning. These are some of the best songs coming our of Britain in the mid 60's in my opinion, still way underheard and underappreciated. My faves include Smokey Day, Whenever You're Ready, Is this the Dream, If it Don't Work Out, I Love You, You Make Me Feel Good, Imagine the Swan.

In the spirit of the alternate universe "me" I have listened to the Joanna Newsom disc. There's no need to open it when it's downloaded from e-music. As I adjust to my changed lifestyle I was up at 6am this morning and at the St Lawrence market at 7am. As it was a beautiful still fall morning (pre-fog) and the sun was just breaking over the horizon it seemed like an ideal setting for listening to the precious Ms Newsom. Still even with the perfect ambiance I can't say that it did much for me. I understand where Kyle's coming from with the Fiery Furnaces reference but with their disc there were some vital moments that I knew with repeat listenings would etch themselves into my brain. The Furnaces also managed to change tempo many times within the same song. On Newsom's disc I'm hard pressed to find any variation across it's 50 minute running time.

I might be jumping the gun here but I'm fairly certain it won't grow on me with time. Hate to say it but I think I concur with Perlich on this one.

As an aside the great jazz singer Anita O'Day passed away on Thursday at the age of 87. I know some of her music but the man who can pass along some recommendations is still MIA on the blog. Look forward to hearing which discs one should own.

brian, wakey wakey....i just lobbed one down the middle of the plate....

I do like her voice....kind of reminds me of Coco Rosie . It's her rambling delivery, accompanied by the off-kilter orchestration that has me a little puzzled, which of course will lead me to play it over and over, which will lead me to...okay I've covered this already. Thanks for feedback, though. I await the Zombie reco from bri....

Kyle, I previewed the disc and I was just saying to Derek that it sounded pretty great to me and her voice was much fuller then her first disc, which I found to be too forced....I have in fact picked it up but in the spirit of Mr Mercer have yet to open it....recall though that I am a folky at heart and it doesnt take much to turn me on in that style...As for Zombies there is only one album, but I should let Herr Doyle give you the 6 paragraph statement of artisitc merit that he will no doubt want to....

Guess we've all settled down for a long winter's nap, eh? Or perhaps we're all busy compiling our respective year end lists but are afraid to reveal your hand before we even get to December? Is that it?

I blame my inactivity on work travel but now that I'm back in the office for a few days, I have no excuse not to post. So, some questions for the esteemed panel:

Has anybody listened to the Joanna Newsom disc? If so, any impressions? I'm at the 'can't believe it's one of the highest rated albums of the year what the hell is this' stage, last experienced, to this extent at least, by the Fiery Furnaces' Blueberry Boat. I'm hoping that the next couple of listens takes me to the, 'kind of dig parts of it but aren't really all that sure as a whole' stage so that I can later progress to the 'simply brilliant, multi-layered work, what sort of philistine doesn't like this' stage?

Has anybody seen the Von Triers' scripted/Vinterberg directed film, Dear Wendy? I watched it a few days ago and, apart from finding it kind of brilliant, if flawed, I loved all the Zombies songs in the soundtrack. So which Zombie albums should I put on my shopping list? I could always pick up a best of/greatest, but I'm thinking that at some point, I'll want the original albums. Problem is, they seem to have released a lot of 45s that may not appear on any original albums and allmusic hasn't shed a lot of light.

Hope I've given you some good ideas to chew on. At the very least, you should all have 'She's Not There' in your heads for the rest of the day.

Well parried Stuart, as I expected. But I still think we tend to exaggerate the value, talent, etc of pop musicians, because their music makes us feel good. And certainly I would be most happy to contribute to a Genius List. Just to provoke controversy, I'm saddened to say that Neil Young would not make my list.

Re experiencing life through pop, Stu, I wasn't excluding other forms of music as avenues to experience. Far from it! (pop/rock/folk/punk comprises about 20% of my listening these days (I am truly getting old)).

And I was serious about the "anyone know any good new punk" question.

a litlle post script that might prove to be the exception...
by sheer coincidence , I heard this great modern choral work on CBC yesterday and loved it...Karl Jenkins - Requium... I just discovered that he was the keyboardist and I think a composer of the pop group soft machine....I will look into it further and get back to you

genius (oxford) ....special mental endowments, exalted intellectual power, instinctive and extraordinary imaginative creative or inventive capacity...

If Bob Dylan or Neil Yonge dont have this , I dont know who does...OK Maybe not the mental endowment parts , but extraordinary instinctive imaginative creative capacity,
no question, especially the instinctive part, which is paramount to pop music and maybe different from the more cerebral classical (sorry formal) music.

I dont mind using the term for pop musicians , but I use it very sparingly ( I can see another top 10 list in the future)...Generally, I also agree with the article , but I dont like the typical backhanding to pop stars that is always associated with this position...for instance the put down on Tommy or the Wall , which are very creative within the genra of pop music..but I guess when sir Paul and the like try these embarassing musical experiments , they do a diss service to pop music in general, which does fine on its own without this bullshit search for musical depth,
that only seems top affect the top most pinacle of pop stars, such as Sting and Paul and thats likely because they cannot live in the real world anymore because of their extremes of sucsess...
Fianally, Brian, try driving up a beautifull snowy road in north ontario listening to Sibelius violin concerto and one could argur that the mirror of life to music applys to all forms, perhaps I'm a litle simplistic with the analogy , but you get my drift (so to speak)

Loathe to admit it, but Sting's latest probably does mirror the life I lead right now. And no, I will not be purchasing it, listening to it, or referring to it in future blogs. Anyone heard any good new punk music?

Does this mean Brian that you wont be purchasing the latest Sting CD because he really doesn't mirror the life you lead? Or would there be other more prudent reasons for that.

One of the discussion points that came out of this article was the offhand use of the word genius, applied to any artistic endeavour but in this case musical genius. It seems to me that that the label is fairly meaningless if we anoint the likes of Jeff Tweedy, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Thom Yorke, Paul McCartney etc with the musical genius tag. Put any of the names above into a google search and tack on the word genius and you'll see what I mean. I'd like to believe that genius isn't something that comes along every day as much as I love the music of the aforementioned fivesome.

Gotta say I wholeheartedly agree with the article on many levels. The difference, let's say chasm, between writing a cool pop song, or even an intricate, multi-level pop/rock classic, and composing in a formal musical context (let's avoid the word classical) is so huge as to be pretty much untraversable. It generally goes in only one direction (pop can't do formal), though, and I think the article got this right too, there aren't any notable instances of formally trained composers writing a fantastic little hip hop number, or some such thing.

In my view, pop music, that THING which we obsess over, mirror our lives through, and (to a degree) live each day to re-discover, is the output almost exclusively of musical lightweights. And yes, I would include most of our guitar and drum heroes in there too. That doesn't make the music any less important for me, though, might even make it more relevant.