I have noticed that occasionally when some music great dies, famous or obscure, one of us will wright a small obit on metabeats, and so I note with interest, no one has commented on the late oscar petterson. Perhaps this is an oversite or you are all too busy, but I was hoping one of you would have because I dont get what all the fuss is about him . He is noted as the most significant pianist in jazz quite often and even though that term gets used a lot especially in obituarys, he is at the very least near the top... I love jazz piano but I have never really been wowed by anything of his, but perhaps one needs to be a muscician to get the art of his craft....it always seemed a bit emotionless to me.. comments would be greatly appreciated to enlighten the unenlightened...

Hey gents, what say we get together for some jazz at the Rex next Wednesday or Thursday. Both nights have good line ups - a trio featuring David Braid (wonderful pianist) on the 16th, and Dave Young's quintet - which has Kevin Turcotte on trumpet and Kelly Jefferson on sax - on the Thursday.

Who's up for it?

Stuart, how's the new Lekman disc?

Sorry Stu, I was just trying to be funny. In fact, I thought I was pretty funny.

Though perhaps I shouldn't have had those two pints at lunch. Or perhaps I should have had more.....

I guess I have to be a bit neater in my writing.....and maybe use spel;lcheck, but I shall restate;
1) I only mention you Brian because I thought I had a discussion with you specifically about the National (not with the cranky Scot).
2) I was never referring to your vocals, I was only referring to the guy who sings for the national...
the "his" being the guy from the national......not the guy from the Egolillys( whos vocals I love by the way)
3)When I refered to "his " vocals ( the National singers) being affected, this is similar to dishonest, so we agree thats what you dont like......
so in short :

I think that Brian ( not cranky Scot) doesnt like the vocals of the guy from the National ( not the guy from the egolillys) because the vocals sound affected (read dishonest) ......and Jans Lekman is crap..

...damn that was fun.....

Now Stuart....please replace "Brian" in your previous blog with "Brian and his more vociferous, cranky, and yes, insightful, friend Derek".

And it's been a long time since you heard my vocals, so how do you know what they sound like???!

And...I'm rolling now.... I would argue (though Derek would probably put it better) that it is the (what seems to me as) dishonesty that I don't like, not the "honesty". I have no real problem with honesty. Bah.

And, Stuart, you liked Jens Lekman?? Wow. Because I've heard (can't remember where) that it's CRAP.

Kyle you have nailed exactly what it is that i love about the National, Boxer is probably my favorite disc of last year and the band is definately my favorite for the year... I know Brian doesnt buy into the honesty of it because of his affected vocals, and I agree there do seem not entirely natural, but like Brian Ferry, I think its that the vocals being a bit removed ( read ironinc) somehow works for me...I know , I know, I am always blasting bands that hide behind Irony, but b3ecause the music here is so heart on sleave the ironiv vocal stance works in a way similar to the vastly underated Beck album Sea Change...as for Jans lekman , its crap, I brought it to the club, but have since given it ( in the words of the late Ray Curtis) "frisby Status" ..
its totally crap, did I mention its crap?

Yeah, I'm bad about starting posts, then abandonning them after I get busy or have to return to one of the other 20 windows I have open on my computer at any given time.

I'll go on record as defending The National, enjoying their past two records quite a bit. I'm a little surprised that you both (Derek and Brian) aren't into this band. I dig the clever, tongue-in-cheek lyrics ('I'm the great white hope...I used to be/carried in the arms of cheerleaders', Mr. November and 'Karen sit in a chair/fuck me and make me a drink', Karen, both from Alligator), the slow build of percussion that anchors many of their livelier tracks, and the quieter moments that have an understated grace. Is it the lead vocals that grate? His almost bored delivery may come across as contrived in an aching for hip kind of way but I like the contrast between the urgency of the lyric or the music and his delivery.

Perhaps a Les Savy vs. The National segment at the upcoming Feb. 1st meeting would be fun, where we advocate/defend each band with a few choice tracks. I'm certainly willing to be persuaded but am as yet unmoved by 'Let's Stay Friends' by the former, which has too many tracks that remind me of Reel Big Fish's 'Never Had to Knock on Wood' (and in so referencing, apologize profusely for putting this in your head).

As for Jens Lekman, didn't somebody bring his first disc to a cd club? Was it Marc? Just want to know who I'm pissing off with this one. Other than 'Black Cab' off that disc, which managed to sound more like Stephen Merrit than the man himself, I haven't really enjoyed any of Lekman's stuff. I like Belle and Sebastian, Magnetic Fields, and Beirut and these are obvious influences, at least when it comes to the 'sound'. But there's so much earnest romanticism in every second of every one of his songs that I find it a little difficult to take. Every moment is, to quote the slimy Golum from Lord of the Rings, 'Precious'. And if everything is beautiful then nothing is beautiful, to quote somebody else, I think.

Just downloaded Sia, which, 9 days into 2008, is the early frontrunner for worst album cover of the year. Will let you know whether it's trash or treasure in the coming weeks.

A quick 2007 footnote on jazz, specific to emusic. First off, the David Murray Black Saint Quartert record "Sacred Ground" is outstanding, peak-period Murray with all of the amazing expressiveness, mood dynamics etc that he offers at his best. Derek, you may already have this (plus a few of the others listed below)....but a heads up for the rest of you.
Other recent favourites of mine, all available on emusic are:

(tenor sax) Grant Stewart's "In the Still of The Night"
(tenor sax) Jerry Bergonzi's "The Tenorist"
(pianist) Enrico Pieranunzi's "Ballads" (gorgeous, quiet player)
(trumpeter) Wallace Roney's "Jazz"

On a non-emusic note, the latest, highly-touted Herbie Hancock record "River - The Joni Letters" is indeed filled with beautiful musical moments, but for my taste suffers from some poor vocal performances (and poor choices) from pop/jazz singers, particularly Nora Jones, Tina Turner. I don't love the Leonard Cohen spoken piece either. The non-vocal tracks are quit sublime though, Wayne Shorter continues to amaze at 74.

I'll be bringing one or two of these to our next gathering, so don't y'all rush out and sample them this week.

(look at me...I posted!)

Consider it downloaded then. Just need to wait until tomorrow when my quota gets replenished on e-music.

Kyle how come when I look at the Dashboard almost every week I see a partial comment from you that shows as draft and then nothing further? Is it something that you mean to post and then just cannot be bothered or is there some sort of technical glitch? Just wondering as I was interested to see you complete your thoughts where Jens Lekman was concerned.

And just in case your looking for some free music to start off 2008 on the right note.

I agree with you re the National. Somebody (perhaps Stuart) needs to help me with them.

Les Savy Fav (nothing like National, at least) are an eighties-indy-punk inspired band with lots of energy and angst, hints of but thankfully not dripping with irony, and although they will sound somewhat familiar if you've been around long enough (sadly, we all have), they are channelling a sound that I lived/loved at the time, and to my ear make it sound very fresh.

All of this to say, that if you're looking for a reason to download them, the answer is clear. Because I told you to.

I'm all for keeping the blog alive. I don't post as often as I should /like to but I check in regularly. Still a better forum than the e-mail route.

Can someone tell me why I should (or should not) download Les Savy Fay. They're not the new National are they? I find the National an incredibly overhyped and underwhelming musical force. They're not musically similar in any way are they. Speaking of overhyped what's up with the drooling over Jens Lekman?

Personally I say keep the blog running. I still check in often, though like you, Kyle, am aware of the drop-off with more kids in the picture and Marc working 7 days a week. Not sure of Stuart's excuse :) Nevertheless I enjoy having it around, and am always thinking of (though typically not acting on, mea culpa) posts. I have also mentioned it to a few people (my music-obsessed nephew for one) to see if they'd like to join in.

Having said all that, it is really your blog, and your inspiration that keeps it going...so your call.

Two questions:

1) Who the hell is Taylor Swift and why does she keep appearing at the top of the emusic charts. Granted, she's kind of hot, if perhaps in a little bit of a creepy, lovechild of Brook Shields-Christopher Atkins circa Blue Lagoon kind of way, but is she talented? I realize I could listen to a sample but I have a hard time willing any part of my body to attempt to listen to music labelled Country.

2) Is it time to shut down this here bloggy thing for good and share our (very) occassional thoughts the old-fashioned way (group email)? I know I've had less time to devote to updating with any insightful comments or thoughts in a long time (okay, ever but...) and I suspect that all your pro-creatin', workaholics out there have little time as well. We could just scrap it, come up with a rotating weekly, bimonthly post/question from each person, or we can just keep it as is.

Let me know what you think...or remain silent.

Also, still not loving Les Savy Fav....sorry Bri.

i'll be brief for now...
albums on the top 10
national - boxer
Julie Doiron- woke myself up
feist- my moon my man
Soundtrack- I'm Not There (bob Dylan covers)
Peter Bjorn & John -Writers block
Patty Griffin- Children running through
Robert plant / Alison krauss- Raising sand

also not bad.....

Shins - Wincing the night away (deserves better recognition)
Andre Either - on blue fog

there is other stuff I have forgotten about Im sure.....I will

Sorry Kyle. You don't get Les Savy Fav? That shows unacceptably bad taste on your part. You're white and born between 1960 and 1980...this music should speak to your thinly veiled fear of death, or worse, poverty. Or something. Besides, Pitchfork (infinitely wise as we all agree) had it at No 44 for the year. Yeah!

Hadn't had a chance to read any of the pitchfork lists yet but loved the worst album covers link. Knew the Eagles had a new album out but didn't realize it had such a fitting cover: bland, boring, predictable, inconsequential.

Even better was the Pop Matters link. I've been looking for a few tracks to fill out the christmas discs and the Youtube videos of each featured song are fantastic. Gracias.

I'd be hard pressed to come up with a top 10 album list for 2007 never mind top 20 so for this year at least I'll restrict it to my favourite tracks of the year. In no particular order:

Feist - My Moon, My Man
Julie Doiron - I Woke Myself Up
Radiohead - All I Need
Arcade Fire - Intervention
The Stars - Take Me to the Riot
Caribou - Melody Day
Luna - You Turned My Head Around
Rihanna - Umbrella
Dr Dog - My Old Ways
Band of Horses - The General Specific
Miracle Fortress - Have You Seen in Your Dreams
Battles - Atlas
brakesbrakesbrakes - Mobile Communication
St. Vincent - Now, Now
Au Revoir Simone - Fallen Snow

Have to agree with Kyle that the Wilco CD was a disappointment and am surprised to see it on several year end best lists. The Okkervill River, Dino Jr and The Sadies all had records this year that despite the hype never made much of an impact on my listening time.

Don't know if you guys are checking out Pitchfork's year-end lists but I did enjoy their worst album covers of the year.

Other sites with some interesting year-end lists include Pop Matters and Dusted Magazine

Thanks for the contrib, Mr. Doyle. Everyone else, bah humbug!

I like the Broken West disc as well and might have put it in my top 20. The Les Savvy Fav has yet to do it for me, though. Haven't heard of The Teeth and I didn't know that Imperial Teen had a new disc out so I'll have to check these out.

[Note: was going to put links to all these discs/tracks but this would have made the page awful to look at and you gents are all tech savvy enough (yes, even stuart) to know how to find these on your own so i'll spare you a screen of bright blue hyperlinks].

Others that would have definitely been in spots 20-11 on my list include:

• Panda Bear - Person Pitch (great disc, perhaps a little one note and only 7 tracks)
• The National - Boxer (first three tracks are great, but it kind of wanes at times, still pretty great)
• Blonde Redhead - 23 (great shoegazer homage, remiscent of Lush and Curve at times)
• MIA - Kala (the mash of sounds and samples can be a bit much at times but at other times, the result is exciting, magical, etc)
• The Comas - Spells (fantastic hooks and rock out moments make this the most well-rounded pop record of the year)
• New Ruins - The Sound They Make (another emusic discovery that panned out well)
• Amon Tobin - The Foley Room (a return to form after a couple of mixed-bag releases)
• Apparat - Walls (for downtempo, atmospheric electronica, I'm digging this one more than the much-balleyhooed 'Untrue' by Burial)
• Brightback Morning Light (after awhile, every one of the Spirtualized-meets-Zero 7-sounding tracks sound the same but I tend to like that sort of thing)
• Beirut - The Flying Club Cup (quite beautiful music, reminiscent vocally of Stephen Merrit, but compositionally more like some of Rufus Wainwright's stuff, but more eclectic instrumentation)

Disappointments: Wilco - Sky Blue Sky (soporific), Bjork - Volta (Timbaland-produced tracks are the only ones that stand out, the other collaborations seem to drizzle away into the ether), Animal Collective - Strawberry Jam (this is supposed to be their most accessible disc? je ne pense ca), The Sea and Cake - Everybody (the followup to the fantastic 'One Bedroom' fizzles out from track one on. think this is a band where you buy every other album).

My favourite songs of 2007:

-Atlas - Battles (hattip to Derek, for forwarding the video link for this most original song of the year and one that at first seems jarring but quickly becomes what pop writers like to call 'infectious'. probably the best song for running, as well)
You Know I'm No Good - Amy Winehouse (sorry, Guardian, we North American scum didn't get this disc until early 2007, and if you're going to be sticklers, "Young Folks" is definitely 2006)
-Icky Thump - The White Stripes (best lyrics of the year: "White American, what/Nothing better to do?/Why don't you kick yourself out?/You're an immigrant too")
-Double Vision - The Ponys (dreamy 60s-inspired jangly, swirly rock in a year of mostly 60s inspired jangly, swirly pop)
-She's a Rejector - Of Montreal (though it's a minute or so too long, still delivers)
-Our Life is Not a Movie Maybe - Okkervil River
-I Am Taking the Train Home - The Twilight Sad
-Have You Seen in Your Dreams - Miracle Fortress
-Mistaken for Strangers - The National
-Don't You Evah - Spoon
-Window Bird - Stars
-I've Seen it All - Feist (can't wait for that Bell Lightbox to be built! -filmfest goer inside joke)
-Paper Planes - M.I.A. (didn't really hear this track until i had my ipod on shuffle a month ago and it popped into the mix. will figure on several of your christmas discs, which will be handed out on friday at bettys lunch or mailed if you can't make it)

All for now. Looking forward to reading your posts. Don't be like Eye Magazine and come out with your list in late January, after reading hundreds of other publications who have already put out their lists and then just adding one or two obscure bands/artists that don't appear on any of the lists in order to seem really with it. I'll be linking to some of these sites over the next few days so do keep checking back here for updates.

While you busy yourselves assembling your year-end lists, some lighter reading, from my favourite link source, the onion av club. This time, a collection of Worst Band Names of 2007.

Kyle, interesting list. Derek and Stuart, cool lists too. Thanks. Marc, wow, I didn't know you were into that type of music. Neat.

My pop/rock faves for 2007, tempered by the fact that I haven't heard many of the albums being pegged as best of the year, which in itself is moderated by the fact that I probably won't like a bunch of them anyway, are:

Broken West - I Can't Go On I'll Go On
The Earlies - Enemy Chorus
His Name is Alive - Sweet Earth Flower (tribute to Marion Brown) - this is really a jazz record by a pop band.
Apples In Stereo - New Magnetic Wonder
The Besnard Lakes - Dark Horse
Les Savy Fav - Let's Stay Friends (just started listening to it, but me likey)
The Teeth - You're My Lover
Imperial Teen - The TV, the Baby, etc etc

As a sidebar, I tend to find that pop music is filling the "lighter" space in my musical spectrum (unlike say anytime prior to about 2000 or so) and I look to jazz and classical for deeper heavier stuff.

Good timing, Bri. This was going to be my next post.

Here's my top 10 of 2007, along with 5-year probability of staying power.

10. Amy Winehouse - Back to Black 40%
9. Explosions in the Sky - All of a Sudden I Miss Everyone 70%
8. Lewis & Clarke - Blasts of Holy Birth 80%
7. Caribou - Andora 80%
6. The Besnard Lakes - The Besnard Lakes are the Dark Horse 60%
5. Feist - The Reminder 60%
4. Spoon - Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga 70%
3. The Arcade Fire - Neon Bible 70%
2. Radiohead - In Rainbows 80%
1. Miracle Fortress - Five Roses 70%

Albums I have not listened to yet but I've heard good things about so don't give me crap cause they aren't on my list:

New Pornographers-Challengers, The Most Serene Republic-Population, Stars of the Lid-And their Refinement of the Decline

No time for commentary right now but will expand a bit on these later and will add the top songs of the year as well.

Best albums of 2007?

Or, how about this one, albums you are most likely to be listening to in five-ten years.

I own both "Low" and "Heroes". The reason I didn't dish out more dough for "Lodger" is that neither of the first two discs in the trilogy has wowed me all that much. Fairly noodly and new agey for the most part there really aren't that many songs from either disc that are standouts for me. I suppose if I had to pick a few "go to" tracks (other than the two mentioned by Kyle) they would be "Always Crashing in the Same Car", "Warszawa" and "Weeping Wall" from the Low album and "Sons of the Silent Age" from the Heroes record. The first two tracks on Heroes may be the most annoying beginning to a so called classic album that I know of.

They are available to be borrowed for anyone who wishes.

Having just listened to "Exile on Main Street" tonight I know what a truly classic album sounds like and neither of the Bowie discs comes close regardless of how innovative they may have been at the time and I'm not sure I buy that anyway.

i haven't listened to any of those albums. just familiar with a few of those tracks ('heroes', obviously, 'sound & vision'). anybody have these and willing to lend them to me?

For me this gets back to our earlier debate about artists who have a later period of artisitic creativity (ie paul Simon, Robbie Robertson etc...) vs artists who only put out good stuff for a brief period of time when they are young..
I cant really claim to know much of Bowies 90's music and it may be possible that he has some great stuff in there, but there is so much other music that is great during the 90's that it seems a waste of time putting in the effort to find out...If it really was that great my guess is we would know about it....considering that the 6 of us probably spend more time perusing reviews checking stuff out online etc... then say.... most medium sized cities in North America...
PS Anyone who does not own Hunky Dory and Ziggy Stardust is simply befeft of some of the finest music of the 70's...( not to mention the slightly weaker - diamond dogs...alladin sane...)
Does anyone own any of his Berlin trilogy......I have heard some love those too.....

Orleans, schmorleans. Why no love for Tino?

Back to music, is there any reason at all for a David Bowie box set of his output from the 1990s? Is this being released solely for the purpose of appearing on the Onion's annual least essential list? 'Little Wonder' was a catchy enough, drum-n-bass-like hit, but the rest? Can't think of a potential box set that could rival it for 'inessentiality', other than, say, 'The Paul McCartney Collection (1980-present)'.

I believe that the guys on the Orleans cover really are actually straight, and that that look was to get the girls all hot and bothered... It simply boggles the mind....was this a 70's look for the babes are did these guys completely miss the boat? (or maybe they are gay and they hit their target audience...)

It's true he has great legs just like me......but unfortunately he can't match my gorgeous skin tone.

the resemblance is uncanny. this guy reminds me more of you, brian.

Wow Stuart, I never realized that you were the lead singer for Orleans back in the 70's! (you're so modest). Who are all your nice-looking friends on the album cover?

Kyle i forgot to respond to your post....but you had it wrong, the album I love the most is this one..

You've obviously confused that woman with the one I was clearly smitten with.

sorry Derek i just

dont see how you think she is hot...

You guys are killing me. Stuart, thanks for all of the fascinating questions. Isn't blogging cool?

Scarlett was laughing at Derek's post. Then she wondered if Stuart failed to click on the 'Accept terms of agreement' box required to upload images. Then she went back to thinking about Kyle and pleasuring herself.

I think the problem is somebody gave you access to a computer.

so if I hit the little icon that says upload image, and I browse my directory and select the jpeg file and then hit upload, and it takes a few moments to do the upload, why does the image not show up on the metabeats site...does anyone know what I am doing wrong...

well its better then the stuff you listen too like these...

stuart, i thought you only listened to music like this...
i don't know what it sounds like but i love the cover.

Hi, For those of you who forgot me, I am a music fan who only likes Neil yonge and wussy music...apologies for being so absent of late, life is very busy...
1) Although I still buy cds, i agree with Brians summary exactly, ths classical and jazz cds I also still reread the liner notes regularly re who plays whatetc... whereas w pop I a) can remember or b) dont care ie...who the drummer of the clientelle is for example...
2) I have never done the great ep game, but I have often done the weak double record that could have been a great single disc...ie Fleetwood Mac Tusk, Smashing Pumpkins -mellon choly...., springsteen - the river.....Electric ladyland zeppelin-physical grafitti, u2 -rattle and hum
some of you will wrongly say some of these are great albums, but my point is that most are arguably just good albums, maybe even very good, but most of these would have been great single albums ranking alongside the best of there recorded output..

Hey I kind of like that game. Good not just for holly Mondays, but for a man-the-Leafs-suck-and-I'm-too-sleepy-to-read Thursday too. I could probably think of a whack of good 'uns with a bit of time, but what immediately comes to mind are The Clash's Sandanista, which may win the award for the most music you have to cut to create a decent record, if pared down to Hitsville, Somebody Got Murdered, Police on My Back, and the Call Up, is a pretty bitching EP (and a travesty really in its natural state); secondly, The Breeders Last Splash - with Cannonball, Invisible Man, Divine Hammer, and Saints definitely takes it from good (and era-defining) album to great great EP.

Beck's Odelay is a great example of that too. One of the best. And I would argue that (since you bring up Pavement) Wowee Zowee is a strong candidate as well - very good in its full form, but man, if it had been released as a five-songer with We Dance, Rattled, Grounded, Father to a Sister, and Kennel District, how amazing is that.

You could probably make a good case for the White Album - even if you just eliminated Revolution #9.

I could do this all night. But I'm tired. Good night, sweet blog.

An interesting exercise for a dreary, rainy, Monday afternoon. Come up with your own 'good album that could have made great EPs' a la this article.

I'd go with...

Beck's 'Odelay'. The EP becomes: 1. Devil's Haircut 2. Hotwax 3. The New Pollution 4. Novacane 5. Where it's At
I always end up skipping to these tracks whenever I listen to this album, finding the rest either too abrasive, silly or both.

Stereolab's 'Mars Audiac Quintet', which becomes: 1. Wow and Flutter 2. Ping Pong 3. International Colouring Contest 4. Three Longers Later 5. Fiery Yellow
Really love this album but the sound can get a little repetitive. These five tracks are not only the best of the bunch but a nice representation of the band's range, from the shoe-gazer-like drone featured on 'Wow..' and 'Three Longers' to the 60s space lounge of 'International Colouring Contest' to 'Ping Pong', an improbably dancable socialist critique of the foundations of capitalism.

Pavement's 'Terror Twilight', which becomes: 1. Spit on a Stranger 2. Cream of Gold 3. You are the Light 4. Major Leagues 5. Speak, See Remember 6. The Hexx

Am I missing some obvious choices?

Hey great list. Only a couple of additional thoughts off the top...

Hands in the Snow (the song) - Saturday Looks Good to Me (the band)
Open Eyes - Apple in Stereo (couple of other goodies on this very strong record)
Suffer for Fashion - Of Montreal
Ghost Town - The Bicycles (an 06 record but an 07 thing for me)
Rally - Phoenix (ditto above)
Stay With Us - New Buffalo
Rides the Rails - Besnard Lakes
You Can Build an Island or Down in the Valley - Broken West (On the Bubble also a goody)
Fallen Idol - Imperial Teen

Wow, there's a fair bit of 60's inspired frilly pop in this collection.

Thanks for the suggestions Kyle. I don't know of about half the tracks you've listed here. Gives me a good headstart for coming up with a nice soundtrack to finish off the year. Might suggest that "Smile" more rightly belongs in 2006 but is a good song regardless. Anyone else out there have any ideas?

I actually spent half an hour in HMV yesterday and was quite pleased to see that they've marked down a lot of discs in jazz and classical by about $5 on average presumably to adjust for the very strong loonie. While in the jazz section they were playing the latest Jarrett / Peacock / DeJohnette disc. I have a few of their live albums already and what I heard of their latest was extremely beautiful.

http://wc10.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:f9fixz9hldje

Some suggestions for 2007 singles to put on a playlist:

Nude - Radiohead
Icky Thump - The White Stripes
Tonight I Have to Leave It - The Shout Out Louds
Our Life is Not a Movie Maybe - Okkervil River
On the Bubble - The Broken West
Double Vision - The Ponys
Boyz - M.I.A.
Arcadia - Apparat
Mistaken for Strangers - The National
Melody Day - Caribou
Burn 2 Ash - Chad Van Gaalen
Ships - New Ruins
Stronger - Kanye West
I Know I'm No Good - Amy Winehouse
Smile - Lily Allen
Been There All the Time - Dinosaur Jr.
I am Taking the Train Home - The Twilight Sad
Disaster - The Besnard Lakes
She's a Rejector - Of Montreal
Comfy in Nautica - Panda Bear
Neo-Plastic Boogie-Woogie - Mahogany
Have You Seen in Your Dreams - Miracle Fortress

I'm sure there are a few that I'm forgetting or can't see readily in my itunes...

Re purchasing music, I feel similarly though not the exactly the same. I'm far more inclined to purchase a CD of classical music, and somewhat more inclined to do so with jazz. Pop (once again) comes in last. Though it seems about every six months, perhaps less frequently than that this year, I'll go to Soundscapes, sample a bunch of music, and buy a few things . Not a great investment, as much of it ends up on the once-a-year playlist, but it's something I've been doing for my entire life, just with less frequency.


I still seem to find an excuse to go to Gregorian every few months and scour the shelves for new classical music. For me, the reason that I'm tending to buy the hard copies of the softer stuff is that I listen to my stereo (read: CDs and records) after hours as I'm reading (read: falling asleep) so the quiet melancholic stuff tends to fit best. For pop, it's all about the subway and music to walk to, so digital works well. No, this is not a good evolution.

When are we going to have our next gathering? The pre-Christmas calendar is filling up a bit.

I'm with you Kyle when it comes to the need to own the actual CD with packaging. It's not like I'm 15 and plan to sit down and sing along with the music for hours on end. Half the time these days the bands don't even include lyrics anyway. It's still nice to own the actual disc for me at least as it probably means I'll give the album at least 5 or 6 spins before consigning it to the scrap heap or elevating it to the status of a disc that gets repeated plays over many years.

Case in point is this past weekend when I threw on Richard Buckner's first album. I'm not sure that if I had it stored somewhere deep in a computer folder that I'd be looking it up, throwing it on the iPod and connecting it to my stereo. By that point the mood that struck me to listen to it in the first place might have passed. What I find with digital music is that if something doesn't strike me fairly quickly I might never go back to it and that might be after only listening to the first few tracks on the way to or from work. I should really take the Doyle approach to e-music and download a select few tracks from any given album and take them for a spin and then go back for the rest if it strikes a chord. But again that takes time and energy that I don't always have.

Speaking of single tracks anyone have any faves from 2007 that might go well on year end comps? Figured we can beat the December/Pitchfork rush and I need some cool playlists for my iPod.

The availability of downloads and their attractive price point is a huge disincentive to going out and purchasing those silver discs, which only clutter up living space, break easily, are far too expensive, and whose contents will likely still have to be ripped to digital form in order to be played on the devices that we use every day (no longer a cd player). Why would I want to own or buy a cd? The album art? Not sure it's worth the premium.

Sure there are those who would argue otherwise. Radiohead hasn't released sales figures for the enhanced box set version of In Rainbows, available for pre-order for 40 pounds, but I'm guessing there are quite a few fans who opted to purchase this version instead of just downloading the album for as little as a few pounds. But I'm happy with my 3.50 pound purchase of the digital only version.

My only complaint at this point is that maybe I have too much new music and need to pare down my consumption of it so that I can better appreciate (or at least listen to) what I already have. In addition to the 90 tracks (roughly 6-7 albums) I get from emusic, I usually get another 2-5 from other sources, legit or otherwise. Even with all the time I spend travelling, which affords me extra listening time each month, I still find I'm a little overwhelmed by the selection of new music from which I can choose. And yet...I don't want to miss out on any potentially new or interesting music so paring down doesn't appear to be the answer either.

As for concerts...though children should be apportioned far more blame in this society, I'd have to lay the blame at just not having enough time in the day to schedule a concert, get a decent amount of rest/sleep, and still meet family and work obligations. I'd like to see more bands that come into town, as well as more operas, plays, dance troupes, etc...but alas, even when I'm making an effort to book tickets and arrange my schedule accordingly, I still find it incredibly difficult.

Is it just me or is this age of easily downloadable digital music making us all really fucking lazy?

I could pin some of this on the time taken up in raising a child but that wouldn't be entirely fair. After all most of the concerts that I used to go and see in a previous life (20-25 rock concerts in 2004-2006) didn't get rolling until 10pm or later, long after Ciaran has gone to bed. So why have I only seen 1 live rock concert in 2007? (2nd upcoming thanks to Kyle) Can I blame you sorry sods for being equally comatose when it comes to the live music experience?

And it's not restricted to rock music. The last opera I saw was over a year ago and I haven't been to see the TSO or any chamber music in a couple of years. How are the rest of you on this count? Have you seen anything lately or see anything on the horizon that looks interesting?

As for the music package itself are any of you still purchasing with any frequency. Amazingly it has been over a year since my last purchase at Soundscapes and the only CD I've bought since the summer was the new Band of Horses. If any of you are still buying the shiny silver discs are you seeing the strength of the Canadian $ reflected in the prices?

On a similar "demise of music" note I see that Sunrise downtown is now selling used CDs in addition to their regular inventory. Makes me think HMV will soon be the only game in the heart of the city.

read an interview w/ stars frontman torquil campbell, quoted as follows:

"God bless Animal Collective, but they really have, in their own strange way, made indie rock a much more conservative place than it should be. If you can create intellectual distance from your work, then critics will feel clever for getting it and give you good marks; if you create music that fucked-up 13-year-old girls might enjoy, then critics will feel like you're trying too hard and not give you good marks. The Pitchfork phenomenon in particular is bizarre because it seems to have altered the fundamental way in which people get into music. I really do think that people should probably lose their virginity before they start writing reviews for Pitchfork."

Questions that follow:
1) Are bands that are wear their heart on their sleeve musically penalized for so doing? Know we touched on this discussion a few years back (sentimentality vs. ironic distance) so wondered if you all felt the same today.
2) Is Animal Collective's music really intellectually distant? I would argue otherwise.
3) Is it likely that most Pitchfork scribes have yet to engage in coitus? If so, should they be barred from publishing until they've done the deed?

Should these questions bore you to tears, here's an article on the future of itunes.

Alone together absolutely....I think thats the second time that Chet album has been discussed, so anyone not owning it may want to do so....I'd add Miles davis Nuit sur les Champes-Elysces from Ascenser Pour L'Echafoud

Excellent choice...favourite version of it?

I'll add Coltrane's "Naima" and Howard Dietz's "Alone Together" (fave version of which is Chet Baker's from "Chet").

In the jazz category I'll nominate Jimmy Van Heusen's "But Beautiful".

In honour of the NYC trip, I thought I would pose a jazz question to the bloglodytes. And here it is:

What are the top five jazz ballads (compositions rather than performances), and top five rock ballads (or slow songs, if you'd rather), of all time?

I will start with one jazz to get the whole thing going - Goodbye PorkPie Hat by Charles Mingus.

Are the Onion A/V Club writers cribbing from my blog posts? (scroll to bottom of my link...blogger isn't handling the permalinks very well). Realize that I was riffing on 1987 and not 1997 but still think I'm owed some type of royalty.

Allow me to second Brian's praise for your links, Derek, which will serve me well this month as I try to figure out how to spend my monthly emusic downloads with so few pop choices of interest.

Also (why not a further jab at Herr Watson) thanks for posting on the correct blog.

Derek I have three words for you. Fan Tas Tic. Exactly what I needed. Tanya is long gone but I'll be mailing these anyway.

The Mullova disk is one that I had considered buying at Gregorian a couple of months back. I'm impressed that emusic has it.

Incidentally, Billy Hart is part of Lovano's band at Birdland on the NYC weekend.

Finally getting around to suggesting some music for your disc(s) Brian assuming they aren't already on their way to South Africa.

I'll stick to music that I've downloaded from e-music over the last few years so at least that way you can easily procure the music for yourself.

In a classical vein:

Peter Donohoe playing Michael Tippett's piano sonata No. 1, 2nd movement.

Pascal Devoyon and Dong-Suk Kang playing Poulenc's violin sonata: Intermezzo.

Viktoria Mullova and Katia Labeque playing Clara Schumann's Romanze for violin and piano.

Mieczyslaw Horszowski playing Schubert's piano sonata in B-flat, D.960 1st movement.

Maxim Rysanov and Evelyn Chang playing any of the following three pieces from their 2007 album: Glinka's violin sonata in D minor (allegro), Enescu's concert piece and Tabakova's "Whispered Lullaby"

As for some jazz:

Dave Douglas - Meaning and Mystery cd - "Blues to Steve Lacy"

Antonio Farao - Takes on Pasolini cd - "Julian e Ida"

Mary Lou Williams - Zoning cd - "Ghost of Love"

Mimi Fox - Perpetually Hip cd - "Night and Day"

Billy Hart - Quartet cd - "Charvez" or "Lullaby for Imke"

Hey boys. I'm making a few mixed CDs for V's cousin Tanya, who stayed with us recently. Hoping for input therein on the following theme - music that is jazz, classical, or in-between, fairly short in length (whether chamber, orchestral, big band, small group, whateva) that could loosely be defined as "mood music", ie, quieter, introspective, melancholic, more after-hours than midday... ETC!

Essential Manchester discs would have to include:


"The Stone Roses" - The Stone Roses
"Pills, Thrills, and Bellyaches" - Happy Mondays
"Between 10th and 11th" or "Some Friendly" - Charlatons UK
"Gold Mother" - James
"Life" - Inspiral Carpets

Essential tracks from that era:

"Step On" and "Kinky Afro" - Happy Mondays
"The Only One I Know" - Charlatons UK
"I Wanna Be Adored" and "Fool's Gold" - The Stone Roses
"Shall We Take a Trip?" - Northside
"Can You Dig It?" - The Mock Turtles
"Groovy Train" - The Farm
"Come Home" - James
"This is How it Feels" and "She Comes in the Fall" - Inspiral Carpets

Very sad about Tony Wilson, launcher of Joy Division and high priest of the Manchester scene. I was somewhat in denial of that musical movement when it was all the rage, so would appreciate from all and sundry (ie Kyle and Derek) a list of essential records from that period - I know a couple of 'em, but I'm sure there will be some revelations for me.

Good Fridays to all.

hadn't read about this until this morning, but the guardian has a great section on the life of anthony wilson, the man behind factory records and subject of the great recent film '24 hour party people'. heart attack, though he was dying of cancer. only 57. very sad that both he and mr. bradshaw passed away in the same week at relatively young ages.

at the risk of seeming trite, a fitting video, from a band toni wilson helped launch:

A couple of other fine looking jazz possibilities for NYC - Joe Lovano with a great quartet in a tribute to John Coltrane at Birdland from the Wednesday to the Saturday ($35 for Friday or Saturday tickets), and trumpeter Wallace Roney with a quintet at Smoke (upper west side - $28).

I've only begun to look at rock venues but like the look of Arlenes Grocery - a local (Tribeca) place that features multiple bands per night and only a small cover.

Hey Kyle, Hey Stu. Do you remember the halcyon days of the blog when Derek and Marc used to post up stuff? Yeah me neither.

So re jazz flats and sharps, I think there are two different things going on here. One is the aforementioned live session phenomenon (jazz records were almost always recorded over one night or possibly two in the good old days, and doesn't happen much anynmore). My favourite example of this is an excruciating first trumpet figure by Tommy Turrentine on the first track of Sonny Clark's Leapin' and Lopin', a truly ugly miss on a fine record. FYI, any record by Sonny Clark is pretty much top notch.

The other is, in my opinion (in the case of Miles Davis anyway) the attempt to create a mournful, plaintive, soulful sound using non-traditional notes, long slides into and out of key, and breathy unusual embouchures. Thinking of Sketches of Spain, as well as Ascenseur Pour L'echafaud. Not to say he didn't sometimes resonate on a note that he wasn't expecting, but I'm pretty sure he accepted that would be part of the sound he was shaping.

Interesting conversation.

stuart, it's because of the heroin. the 21st century jazz performer is mainly hepped up on starbucks, which can make on jittery but rarely leads to flatness or flatlining.

of course, that's a bad joke and i await a better post/explanation for this phenomenom.

interesting video clip....,.and that sounds like a good jazz suggestion Brian, will we need to get tickets before we leave to catch a show by someone that big??
Question to you jazz scholars.... On a number of my jazz records , it is quite common for the musician , (usually it is a trumpet player) , to miss notes , or be a bit flat, for example like Johnny Coles on that video clip around the 5:15 min mark for a few seconds...Miles davis does it quite a bit on sketches of spain, etc etc... is this for you guys , just the greatness of getting live passionate music taken off the floor warts and all ...I never hear critics discuss this...like it is taboo somehow to criticise these historical sessions....You dont seem to hear it on new modern recorded discs from the last decade, it only seems to happen on recordings from the 50s and 60s..

Speaking of the Vanguard, Kurt Rosenwinkel is playing there when we're in NYC (18th to 23rd). Pretty signficant player, not my favourite musician, but that's more of a stylistic complaint. He is certainly on the cutting edge of contemporary jazz. Nice looking quintet with Mark Turner on sax. Not to dwell on things, but Motian, Frisell, and Lovano play the two weekends previous. Ah well. Let's do a little more research and post it up.

Wow, didn't know you were so deep into BE. Excellent. Good choices on your part too. Re next ones, in order of loveliness, I would choose (1) Moonbeams; (2) Explorations; (3) the Solo Sessions; (4) How My Heart Sings.

And Waltz for Debby is fantastic but is the second half of the Live at the Village Vanguard recording, so more familiar. Ergo not on my list.

which of the Bill Evans offerings on emusic would you recommend, bri? i have the Tony Bennet collab and the Village Vanguard live, "Interplay", and "Portrait in Jazz". any others i should grab?

Hey cool clip of Mingus' sextet. The sound sucks on my PC but the visual is great. Research tells me that this sextet was a group of near titans - Jacki Byard on piano, Clifford Jordan on tenor, Mingus' long time drummer Dannie Richmond, and the revelatory Johnny Coles on trumpet (great solo he plays here). That Mingus sextet released two or three live disks around the same time ('64), so were obviously a pretty strong live band. Clearly I've got to spend more time on YouTube. I hadn't heard of the new disk - I'll have to track 'er down.

On a similar note, I saw from e-music that Bill Evans has "released" a number of new recordings, one of which is Live in Ottawa (1974), recorded outside at Camp Fortune, where I attended many live shows over the years as a teen. For those of you who are Bill Evans obsessed (OK, that's only me) the sound quality on this new one is great and the trio is in great form, from the 3 or 4 tracks I sampled. E-music has a pretty full collection of Evans' music, if you hadn't noticed that yet, and were looking for some monthly subscription filler.

i'll see if i can locate those two tracks...perhaps the albums that you've mentioned will give me a better representation of their sound. then again, it may just not be for me. or it could be a fiery furnaces situation, where i'm fairly positive, after first listen, that i'm never going to like the songs, then keep going back because i'm curious to see if i'll feel the same way after repeat listens, then i'll actually start wanting to hear the songs because i like them. or not.

Kyle it is a woefully inadequate selection....starting off by missing my two favorite tunes Tam Lin and Autopsy...I think they are better served by the individual albums I mentioned earlier, but I'm thinking we had probably best end this discourse on these bands as I am sure Derek and Marc are probably at the screaming point by now.... (it being futile for them to pull out their hair)...

stu, it's this one. can't say i'm loving it on first couple of listens but i'm coming in a little late in the game. perhaps not the best to experience it on laptop speakers while doing other work. more something to listen to while lounging in the sun, perhaps while carving something out of wood.

i am digging the radio paradise station that you recommended which is more suitable for work than kexp or kcrw and still plays an interesting mix of songs.

to you jazzophiles out there, has anyone picked up the mingus/dolphy cornell recordings disc? the track i heard on the all songs considered podcast is pretty great.

for those looking for a mingus/dolphy fix on a friday morning, here's a great performance, courtesy of youtube:

which compilation did you get, I dont see a "greatest hits" listed on allmusic...

thanks for the tip, stu. have added that link to the right. am also listening to fairport convention's greatest hits, which i downloaded last week. will share my thoughts after a few listens.

Kyle, i have also found a good itunes radio station, that works well in an office environment. It is called radio paradise ,(under eclectic), and it plays 70's fleetwood mac, wilco, postal service, dexis midnight runners , pretty much living up to its category eclectic...it is very refreshing to hear such a wide range on one station, in contrast to comercial radio where they play such a narrow range (ie Q107 only has 4 rolling stones songs in rotation, or cfny which cant play anything not out this year...

Thanks Brian , I will check that out, Rob M has also been bugging me that I dont have their other album "the hangmans beautiful daughter",(or something like that)....do you have that one as well??

Thanks Stu. I appear to have got a bunch of that wrong...wouldn't be the first time. I'll have to check out the Bert Jansch stuff, and Pentagle. Another band from that period that's worth checking out that I forgot to mention is the Incredible String Band; I have their record "the 5000 spirits of the layers of the onion" and it is a true sixties psych folk relic.

While there is no doubt that the brit folk bands, ( I agree the key ones being the ones you mention brian), were interested in the american folk scene and in fact often new their counterparts personally, the brit sound is quite different , being celtic influenced rather then blues influenced. Even on Holidays they ( Sandy in particular) cant help sounding british, see Fotheringay for one of my absolute favorite FC songs..that track doesnt sound american to me and I thing Paul Simon owes a debt towards this british sound ....Also , FC didnt invent it for pentangle, John Martyn etc... they were all part of that scene and new each other , all there fiirst albums are all circa 1968....it was a mass movement that came out of the british and scottish folk traditions which are 100's of years old and the cross fertilization with the burgoning American folk scene...I dont pretend to be an expert on the brit folk scene prior to all the bands brian refers to , but Bert jansches first album from 1965 is absolutely fantastic song writing, he went on with John renbourne to create pentangle and Sweet child is also essential listening... Niow I am rambling, but back to the original question, I love Holidays for the songs, rather then fore any important place in history and I agree with you brian that leige and Leif is better

You know, I hate being caught out in a generality.....but hey I'll fess up and say mea culpa. So to re-phrase, what I was really trying to say is that specific FC records from that period are essential listening, and for me those records are Liege and Lief and Full House, with Unhalfbricking coming in a distinct third (possibly not for Stuart given his blog?) And the "Holidays" record, while having some lovely songs, is still the sound of a band finding its voice.

And why is FC essential? Because they were the first to my knowledge in the English folk scene, which in their case called on traditional English music and turned it into rock and pop songs. Folk and folk-pop music for the years previous had been dominated by Americans - Dylan, Baez, Phil Ochs, The Byrds, numerous others - so FC was almost a reponse to it, and you can see from their first few records, incl. Holidays, that they started out working with American songs (lots of Dylan covers, for ex) until they re-invented themselves as interpreters of traditional Brit songs with Liege and Lief - and that's the record I would own if you had to have one. Full House is equally good but doesn't have the benefit of Sandy Denny, who'd left by that point. Unhalfbricking is less interesting thematically, but is a fantastic record nonetheless - personal faves are the justly famous "Who Knows Where the Time Goes", plus "Autopsy" and "Percy's Song" (one of three Dylan covers on the record). The English folk scene - of which I own very little, but I know Stuart is a huge fan so I will let him expand and expound on this...but artists like Steeleye Span, John Martyn, Pentangle, even Nick Drake - grew out of the inspiration of Fairport Convention. Later celtic rockers in the 80's too (Spirit of the West eg).

"What We Did On Our Holidays" has been in my collection now for a few years and despite my best efforts it has still never really clicked for me. I'm not sure why it's considered essential listening. Perhaps Stuart or Brian could chime in here and fill me in. It's not a record I dislike but just one that doesn't leave any impression on me. If I were to hear a random track being played on the radio (not likely) I'm pretty sure the source would elude me.

Thanks Stu - I have a bunch of the FC records with the big names in 'em, including the three you mentioned (absolutely essential listening, for the rest of you), but not the Fotheringay and no solo SD stuff. For whatever reason, I focused on the Richard and Linda Thompson records (and later, his solo stuff) rather than Sandy Denny in terms of post Fairport music. I will go a-looking into it.

I saw a Denny-less, Thompson-less Fairport live at a small club in Ottawa in the early 80's, and despite the lack of (famous) original members it was pretty fantastic.

Btw...I've updated the links on the right side of the page for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is ease of use. Several of the old links required you to click, then copy and paste, or drag the contents into a music player. I went with that method in the past because I figured not everyone at the time was using itunes. Since most if not all of us are now doing so, it seems stupid to make this any more complicated than it need be.

The 'Podcasts' links will now open up in itunes and bring you to the subscription page, where a simple click will add that podcast to your list of automatic updates. If there are additional music-related podcasts you think I should include, or even non-music related ones, please let me know and I will add these.

Under 'Radio', I've added 'Fresh Air Edinburgh', a great station I discovered in Itunes radio. In addition to playing great music, they list the track and artist in itunes while playing, which the other two links aren't able to do at present. When you click on this link, select 'open' and it will open up in itunes. I've also added last.fm, which does what Pandora used to do (no longer available in Canada).

Streamlined the reading section, most of which are focused one music, two of which focus on fake news (the onion) and commentary on real news (salon). If you only have time to read one blog per day, Glenn Greenwald's daily (sometimes hourly) posts on media coverage and politics in the US is essential. The last is a link to the Toronto Public Library, which you should really bookmark if you haven't already.

The Giles Peterson comps are hit and miss. You can listen to a few samples at emusic.com to see what I mean. You may also want to follow the trail of links of suggested music and labels to find other similar examples (duh).

What you definitely don't want to do is find yourself on the slippery slope to smooth jazz.

Thanks for the tip on Byrd Brian....I love that hybrid soul jazz music, maybe typified by archie shepp- attica blues which derek put me onto....I also love that electro jazz like Henderson Power to the people, and there is much in between these benchmarks, but damned If I can find it...Warren is probably the guy to tell me....Gilles peterson puts out comps on this occasionally ....
Regarding sandy denny, the box set is 5 cds and covers her whole carrer, Strawbs, Fairport Convention, Fotheringay, Solo....It is probably way too much for anyone other then the true nutters like me...The best records to have are unhalfbricking , Holidays, Leige and leif,
Fotheringay, and Sandy , and I would start with unhalfbricking or leige and leif.....

And for my second non-sequitur of the morning, also related to a much earlier blog of Mr. W's, Allmusic reminded me of a great electro-fusion jazz record today, Donald Byrd's "Electric Byrd" - deeply influenced by same-period Miles, but really good nevertheless. I know you were looking for some a couple of months ago.

Also, if you want to see how jazz got off the rails in the seventies, you should check out his record from a few years later - Black Byrd - which is soul/R&B jazz with black guys and girls chanting along....real Isaac Hayes meets jazz stuff. Sounds pretty cool in a purely retro way actually, but considering it came from a pure jazz trumpeter, and was a huge seller, well, it was the beginning of the end of the line for jazz for about ten years.

Stu - I meant to follow up on your note re Sandy Denny. I'm intrigued by the box set and will take a look one-line. I've never explored her non FC career. How would you compare the two and what are you favourite albums?

Following the link to wikipedia, I came across the listing for CFNY, which did little to settle the great Brian-Jackie debate of '07, but did point me to another site that has archived radio shows you can stream.

Stuart, I take your point about REM and the ludicrious application of a term to a band long since past its 'alternative' days--I'm pretty sure U2 is still winning or being nominated for Alternative Grammys, despite being mainstream for 20+ years. But I still think that 'Document' and 'Green' were college radio, though the single 'Stand' from the latter certainly helped them transition to the mainstream, solidified with 1991's 'Out of Time'.

Thanks boys...I've chosen to ignore Sturat's note and Marc's note, plus bury a number of external sources I have subsequently found (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_rock , for ex), and leveraging Kyle's incredibly strong grey matter (similar to mine actually), have declared myself the winner in my debate with (the woefully underinformed) Jackie.

Gotta run out to pick up some Depeche Mode.

Most definately, alternative meant edgy non nickelback type music in the 80's , I think Jackie has it bang on Brian......I think that coincides with when cfny started calling themselves the edge.....then, somewhere in the early 90's the term became irrelevant.....I remember seeing REM in the alternative music area of HMV sometime in the early ninetys and by then they were as main stream as you could get ( but still a damn great band) .... (they lost their college radio stance with Lifes Rich pagent to me) Alternative rock has been interchangable with mainstream rock to me for about 15 years....Indy rock, however, is a relatively new term which still has some validity , I thought it originally meant "indy"pendant artist without a major lable contract like Julie Doiron. Indy now seams to mean what alternative rock used to mean in the 80's...see my above definition...I think everyone is jumping on this lable like they did the alternative lable to get some critical support where it often doesnt or should exist....in short these terms become marketing tools over time... PS I passed my stone finally and am 100% better....How was the battles last night??

I really can't recall what i did on the weekend let alone what i called music in 1987, but interestingly enough, do a search on line and you will find that most sources suggest that the term "alternative" was coined in the early or mid 80's. In 1991 it was introduced as a category at the Grammies ...so you gotta know that it been around for a while by then!

i don't think I ever used the word 'alternative' in the 80s to refer to the music i was listening to at the time. to me, it was a term that started around the time Nirvanna broke (early 1991). bands like new order and the cure were always called 'new wave' and the only station that played that type of music, CFNY (now 'the edge' but the same location on the dial--102.1), did not start using the alternative label, to the best of my knowledge, until the 90s. i remember finding it irritating that there weren't any commonly used words to describe that music. 'college radio' seemed to be able to account for bands like 'R.E.M.' or 'Dead Milkmen' but it seemed like a bit of an American term that wouldn't necessarily encompass artists from across the Atlantic.

in fact, I recall making a series of cassettes in 1987 that was comprised mainly of songs I'd taped directly off the radio--how's that for audio quality--and they were labelled 'New Wave 1', 'New Wave 2, 3, etc..).

I have a freakishly good memory when it comes to these types of things (ask me to rattle off the last 30 stanley cup winners....come on....i dare you) so I'm saying your colleague has it wrong.

However, you are completely wrong when it comes to Depeche Mode, who are, or at least were for a time being, awesome. 'Just Can't Get Enough' is in the top 5 songs of the 80s, and they have at least 3 great albums (Music for the Masses, Black Celebration, and Some Great Reward), mentioned specifically here if only to draw a potential differentiation point from Derek, who will likely support my claim in general. As punishment for saying this, i invite you to recall the opening bars of 'personal jesus', which will now stay in your head for the remainder of the day.

OK, I've just had a lively debate with my friend at work Jackie on when "alternative" became commonly used to describe rock/pop music that wasn't chart-friendly. I argued that in the 80's we generally referred to anything off the charts as "indy" or occassionally college music, and that the term alternative was more of a 1990's thing. She says that by 1987 she was calling all of her favourite music (she mentioned the Smiths, The Cure, Depeche Mode..etc) alternative. I didn't remember ever calling the Smiths or Cure alternative (other than possibly as a general reference to dress and sexual orientation...where the term originated I believe and organically grew into an industry term for music).

I never called Depeche Mode anythign because I thought they stunk, but that's beside the point.

Anyone feel like sounding in to help me settle this?

Funny, I brought that Julie Doiron disc to the last cd club , but didnt play it.....Its quite good though I give the nod to the previous disc goodnight nobody. That disc has the most beautiful haunting winter song of all time in the hist......well you get it....its called when the snow falls in december, an absolute must... thanks for the other tips lads , I will have to check them out....
also , whats a good way to cure the kyndey stone blues, go blow 100 bucks on a box set... picked up the Sandy Denny set and as I am already a committed fan, unsurprisingly I love it...however, it is a bit like the faces box, in that the outtakes (in particular one disc of demos of just her and her guitar or piano singing) are magic... this is not always the case......

Awesome recommendations Derek. Thanks. I know Frielander well (and have trumpeted, or rather celloed, his praises in the past) though didn't know he had a new release. I also know and like some of Nielsen's works, symphs and piano, but no str q's, so cool. And I'm a fan of Julie Doiron, but again didn't know she was out with something new...the others will be entirely new to me, which is even better.

As an aside, I question why emusic with all of its "new release" notifications (seems to be about two a day) almost never tells me about something I either (a) didn't already know about or (b) would really like, given my previous downloads. Julie Doiron is a perfect example. Kyle, can you arrange to work with them to re-program that?

Hey Brian, may I recommend the following some of which I've just heard tracks from in the last few days driving to and fro Hamilton and sporadically tuning in to CKLN:

Erik Friedlander a cellist with an eclectic bent I heard this morning on their jazz show. They played a track from his latest disc Block Ice & Propane which was pretty cool. I'd also recommend the album Africa Calling by Wilton "Bogey" Gaynair a recent re-issue of a British jazz album from the 60's which I downloaded last week.

I also heard a track today from the most recent Julie Doiron CD which was just nominated for the Polaris prize. I didn't even recognize it as her and it was very good. Was surprised to see this was on e-music. I've also heard some good buzz about The Veils and their most recent disc Nux Vomica. The main guy in the band is Finn Andrews the son of Barry Andrews of XTC fame.

A recent Gramophone issue also gave plaudits to the Young Danish Quartets disc of Nielsen String Quartets, a record which I'm about to download myself as I know only Neilsen's symphonies.

Hope that helps a bit.

OK, 45 minutes later and I (cleverly) put two and two together and figured out that the new Spoon record MUST BE ON E-MUSIC. Oh I am good. So now I'm listening to it...track one is only marginally Joelian to my ears Kyle, but I trust from your note that I"ll be hearing heart attack-ack-ack-ack any moment now. So many bands channeling 70's pop/rock.

A couple of recent (yes, e-music too) discoveries for me were The Slip - their recent release Eisenhower is beat-based indy guitar rock and pretty well done, and a mix of styles that is a little new to me - more emphasis on rhythms and beat than I generally seek out, maybe a bit of The Feelies in their library....but also a lot of Death Cab and Geek Rock influences. Listen to Soft Machine and Children of December to see if it works for you. Through searches for The Slip I came upon Phoenix, which you younger cooler cats probably know all about, much ballyhooed in '06, but brand new to me...and in a generally similar way, quite good. Less geek, more dancy at times, but some very good songs.

On a similar note, I'm fishing for e-music recommendations. 65 songs to fill and a distinct lack of ideas. Needn't be just pop/rock.

anybody listen to the new Spoon album, released yesterday. one listen in and i'm alarmed at the number of songs that remind me of Billy Joel. But I'll keep listening.

What have other people purchased, enjoyed lately? Marc, you mentioned Icky Thump...are you enjoying it?