Hey Mike,
It's a good list. Reflective of you, so I can't imagine it being that different, even if you had a wider exposure (not sure, but that's what my gut tells me). All of your caveats apply equally to me. Mine is not a survey of all pop / rock, just the stuff I came across. Nice to see the other lists from that perspective, because it was not a particularly heavy-gathering decade of music for me. Having said that, some of the obvious exclusions were not due to lack of exposure.

I've been working on my list of albums, and I've been listening almost exclusively to music from the noughts for the last couple of months in an effort to sort it all out. One thing that this project has made clear is that there are lots of great albums that I've meant to buy but have not yet bought. In fact, most of my music purchases over the last few years have been through emusic.com and Paste magazine, which has significantly skewed my collection. So this list is not meant to be any sort of definitive commentary on historical or important albums. It is merely a list of the decade's albums that have given me the most enjoyment. I couldn't really claim that of a full 100 albums, so I went with a top 50:

50. The Finn Brothers - Everyone Is Here
49. Bob Geldof - Sex, Age & Death
48. Suzanne Vega - Beauty & Crime
47. Scott Merritt - Detour Home
46. Paul Simon - Surprise
45. Midlake - The Trials of Van Occupanther
44. Garbage - Beautiful Garbage
43. Todd Snider - Happy to Be Here
42. Lloyd Cole - Anti Depressant
41. Warren Zevon - The Wind
40. Stars - Set Yourself on Fire
39. The Waterboys - Fisherman’s Blues, Part 2
38. Feist - Let It Die
37. Sufjan Stevens - Illinoise
36. The Rosebuds - Life Like
35. Rheostatics - Night of the Shooting Stars
34. Steve Earle - Just an American Boy
33. Elliott Smith - From a Basement on the Hill
32. David Gray - Life in Slow Motion
31. The Walkabouts - Drunken Soundtracks
30. Lucinda Williams - Essence
29. Over the Rhine - Live From Nowhere Volume One
28. Todd Snider - East Nashville Skyline
27. Radiohead - In Rainbows
26. Better Than Ezra - Closer
25. Ryan Adams - Heartbreaker
24. Kathleen Edwards - Failer
23. John Fogerty - Revival
22. Suzanne Vega - Songs In Red And Gray
21. Radiohead - Hail To The Thief
20. Coldplay - A Rush of Blood to the Head
19. The Waterboys - A Rock in the Weary Land
18. My Morning Jacket - Z
17. The Strokes - Is this It?
16. The Decemberists - Castaways and Cutouts
15. Arcade Fire - Neon Bible
14. U2 - All That You Can’t Leave Behind
13. R.E.M. - Reveal
12. Coldplay - X&Y
11. Bruce Springsteen - We Shall Overcome: The Seeger Sessions
10. David Gray - A New Day at Midnight
9. Josh Ritter - Hello Starling
8. Kathleen Edwards - Asking For Flowers
7. Over The Rhine - The Trumpet Child
6. Lyle Lovett - My Baby Don’t Tolerate
5. Tom Waits - Alice
4. Steve Earle - Jerusalem
3. The Decemberists - Picaresque
2. Bruce Springsteen - The Rising
1. Arcade Fire - Funeral

Hey I've expanded! My list of albums, that is. I've sweated out a list of 43 Really Cool Records (from the noughts). Don't miss out, buy them now.

43	Imperial Teen - The Hair the TV the Baby and the Band
42	Apples in Stereo - New Magnetic Wonder
41	American Analog Set - Know By Heart
40	Do Make Say Think - You, You're a History in Rust
39	The Teeth - Your're My Lover Now
38	Okkervil River – The Stage Names
37	Land of Talk – Some are Lakes
36	Leisure Society – Sleeper
35	Low – Things We Lost in the Fire
34	Last Days of April – If You Lose It
33	The Deerhof – The Runners Four
32	Tapes n Tapes – The Loon
31	New Buffalo – Somewhere Anywhere
30	Young people – All at Once
29	Movietone – Blossom Filled Streets
28	Bon Iver – For Emma Forever Ago
27	Animal Collective – Feels
27	Les Savy Fav – Let’s Stay Friends
26	Juliana Hatfield – Beautiful Creature
25	The Headlights – Some Racing Some Stopping
24	The Bicycles – the Good, the Bad, and the Cuddly
23	The Stars – Set Yourself on Fire
22	Yo La Tengo – And then Nothing
21	Novillero – Aim Right For the Holes in their Lives
20	Field Music – Tones of Town
20	The Decembrists – Picaresque
19	The Broken West – I Can’t Go on, I’ll Go On
18	Archer Prewitt – Gerroa Songs
17	Andrew Bird – Armchair Apocrypha
16	John Cunningham – Happy Go Unlucky
15	Kings of Convenience – Quiet is the New Loud
14	The Kingsbury Manx – The Fast Rise and Fall of the South
13	Beulah – The Coast is Never Clear
12	Grandaddy – The Sophtware Slump
11	Matt Pond – The Green Fury
10	The Microphones – The Glow Part 2
9	Damien Jurado – And Now that I’m in your Shadow
8	Teenage Fanclub – Man Made
7	Midlake – Trials of Van Occupanther
6	Guided By Voices – Isolation Drills
5	The Shins – Chutes Too Narrow
4	Badly Drawn Boy – Bewilderbeast
3	The Strokes – Is this it?
2	Elliott Smith – From a Basement on the Hill
1	Sufjan Stevens – Illinoise

Thanks for the props, Marc. And for your post, which had the effect of realigning the right navigation links, which somehow got screwed up when i embedded the playlist. Looking forward to your lists. Others, don't be shy. You needn't spend 2 hours of flight time building a list in excel then another couple building a playlist to do so. A good old fashioned youtube embed/link or just (gasp) plain old text with a few select bon chansons de decennie will suffice.

Dude's got the tech down pat! awwwesome! ...comments to follow on my own typically peculiar choices.

Top 100 Songs - 2000s

In a listenable format, countdown ordered from 100 to 1. Enjoy those tracks you find great, skip those that just grate.

I like your list, Marc, though I confess to not having heard enough Jack Johnson to either frown or applaud his prominent inclusion(s). Though we both apparently dig us some Wilco, for some reason 'A Ghost is Born' consistently rubs me the wrong way and gets worse for me with each listen. Am rediscovering Hope Sandoval's earlier disc from the decade that you included, after recently downloading her latest; the quiet prettiness of 'Suzanne' (not an LC cover) equals or betters any of the Mazzy Star stuff.

Will wait for everyone else's lists before expanding on the reasons my own choices. However, some reasons behind some notable omissions:

"White Blood Cells" - The White Stripes
Was originally on my list, as high up as the 30s. And if we were discussing a list of what we consider the most important discs of the decade, a concept fraught not only with pomposity but a seriousness of purpose unsuited to the casual sharing/piss taking of this particular space, than pehaps it would have rated in my top 5. But if I'm honest with myself, much as I like the album, I almost never listen to it, beyond sticking the breatkthrough single, which will appear shortly on my best songs list, on my shuffle for running.

The Killers - I don't fucking like them. Perhaps there's something to their sound that I should like. Still, no. Ditto Gwen Stefani, every member of the Black Eyed Peas or anyone from any American, Canadian Idol contest.

LCD Soundsystem, Ghostface Killah, Green Day...I don't own these albums. Perhaps I should. Let me know.

Am working on a way (thank you US Thanksgiving) to include my top 100 songs in a listenable countdown format widget from grooveshark, to possibly post tomorrow or Monday. Until then, happy blogging.

I know i'm gonna catch some flack for my list ...i just know it! ...here it is, the top 82 albums of the new millennium according to moi!

Some selections are solid and have legs, others, admittedly, not so much so; we will put them in the category of "temporal but of great significance in one way or another".


1-Arcade Fire, Funeral
2-Jack Johnson, Thicker Than Water
3-Antibalas, Talkatif
4-Suba, Sao Paulo Confessions
5-St Germain, Tourist
6-Getatchew Mekuria, The Ex and Guests, Moa Anbessa
7-Broken Social Scene, You Forgot it in People
8-Soil and Pimp Sessions, Pimp of the Year
9-Bugge Wesseltoft, Moving
10-Calexico, Feast of Wire
11-Brad Mehldau, Live in Tokyo
12-Koop, Waltz for Koop
13-Arcade Fire, Neon Bible
14-Clinic, Walking With Thee
15-Gotan Project, La Revancha Del Tango
16-The Strokes, Room on Fire
17-Death Cab for Cutie, Plans
18-Jack Johnson, Brushfire Fairytales
19-Sigur Ros, ()
20-Moby, 18
21-Wilco, A Ghost is Born
22-Air, Virgin Suicides
23-Dandy Warhols, Thirteen Tales From Urban Bohemia
24-The New Pornographers, Mass Romantic
25-Pawa Up First, Introducing New Details
26-South, From Here On In
27-Garbage, Beautiful Garbage
28-Soil and Pimp Sessions, Pimp Master
29-Jolie Holland, Escondida
30-Bebel Gilberto, Tanto Tempo
31-Lilly Allen, Alright Still
32-Interpol, Antics
33-Coldplay, A Rush of Blood to the Head
34-Zero Seven, Simple Things
35-Franz, Ferdinand
36-Femi Kuti, Fight To Win
37-Eivind Aarset, Connected
38-Amon Tobin, Supermodified
39-Four Hero, Creating Patterns
40-Ladytron, Witching Hour
41-Antibalas, Who is This America
42-Bugge Wesseltoft, IM
43-Bonobo, Animal Magic
44-MIA, Arular
45-Soil and Pimp Sessions, Pimpoint
46-The Shins, Chutes Too Narrow
47-Beastie Boys, To the Boroughs
48-Outkast, Stankonia
49-The Avalanches, Since I Left You
50-Spoon, Gimme Fiction
51-Bugge Wesseltoft, New Conceptions of Jazz Live
52-Do Make say Think, & Yet & Yet
53-The Walkmen, Bows & Arrows
54-Mum, Finally We Are No One
55-Feist, Let it Die
56-Antibalas, Security
57-Built to Spill, You in Reverse
58-The White Stripes, Elephant
59-Pernice Brothers, Yours Mine & Ours
60-Jack Johnson, On and On
61-Bugge Wesseltoft, New conceptions of Jazz
62-Dzihan & Kamien, Freaks and Icons
63-Guided By Voices, Earthquake Glue
64-Beck, Guero
65-Thievery Corporation, The Mirror Conspiracy
66-Hawaii
67-Moby, Hotel
68-Sergio Mendes, Timeless
69-Eivind Aarset, Electonique Noire
70-Sam Roberts, Chemical City
71-Explosions in the Sky, The Earth Is Not a Cold Dead Plan
72-Jack Johnson, In Between Dreams
73-Gnarles Barkley, St Elseware
74-Hope Sandaval, Bavarian Fruit Bread
75-Banca de Gaia, Last Train to Lhasa
76-Snow Patrol, Final Straw
77-Nils Petter Molvaer, er
78-Eivind Aarset, Electonique Noire – Light Extracts
79-Joseph Malik, Diverse
80-Manitoba, Start Breaking my Heart
The Decemberists, Picaresque (late addition not sequenced)
Shout Out Louds, Howl Howl, Gaff Gaff (late addition not sequenced)

Mike and Derek, love the lists (though I'd say Jane Says is tenuous, much as I love this song). My intentions with the CA songs was to include those that reference the place, cities, or locations within the state, whether overtly or not. Which is why I didn't mention any of the Beach Boys songs you mentioned, and I certainly wasn't going to include 'California Girls'. Not to get into a pissing match about what constitutes a Cali song, though.

In a similar vein to the po-mo take you highlighted Bri, I should have also included Rufus Wainwright's "California" which begins, "California / California / You're such a wonder that I think I'll stay, in bed".

Also, I did mention Luna. And I don't like "LA Woman" though "Peace Frog", with its "bloody red sun of fantastic LA" line probably makes it a worthy entry.

My two cents worth on the Cali road trip soundtrack:

Flash and the Pan - California
Bran Van 3000 - Drinking in LA
The Lucksmiths - The Chapter in Your Life entitled San Francisco
The Decemberists - either Los Angeles I'm Yours or California One Youth & Beauty Brigade
Randy Newman - I Love LA
Jay Farrar - California
Warren Zevon - Desperados under the Eaves
Tom Petty Free Falling
Joni Mitchell - California
Jane's Addiction - Jane Says

Love the post modern take on California music guys, ie a lot of these writers are looking at the anti-dream rather than the promise. But come come, two California lists without the Beach Boys ?! You can, as I do, eschew most or all of the "00"s" Pitchfork idolization of everything Brian Wilson (I've railed about this in previous blogs), but to exclude Beach Boys from a list of Cali music seems just mean. For me Good Vibrations is their peak.

Other necessities would include something by the Byrds - the greatest LA band of all time in my humble view - I would suggest Mr. Tambourine Man for its dreamy (literally) qualities. Since we're talking about LA, what abotu the Doors LA Woman? Nice. And Buffalo Springfield's "For What it's Worth" about the riots on Sunset Strip. Fanstatic. Millions more from the sixties, Grateful Dead, Sanatana, Moby Grape, Quicksilver, Jefferson Airplane, the list goes one (Marc, methinks I'm making you a disk).

And moving on, something from the 70's So Cal scene - the much blogged Jackson Browne (say, Doctor My Eyes), or hell if we're sticking to literal references why not Eagles "Hotel California". On a more modern note, "Unfair" would be my first choice (good job KP), but how about Luna's "California", or wait, that fairly wretched opening song from the OC (Kyle please insert title).

OK it's time I started working.

I'm still working on my 20xx list, but I can contribute a few ideas to the California playlist concept. I couldn't find videos for all of them:

1. California Stars by Wilco



2. California Dreamline by Rheostatics




3. Goodnight California by Kathleen Edwards



4. California by Low



5. Not California by Hem



6. California by Josh Ritter



7. Come a Long Way by Michelle Shocked



8. Losing California by Sloan



9. I Remember California by REM

10. San Andreas Fault by Nathalie Marchant

Brian, 'Toxic Girl' by Kings of C., will definitely be on the top songs list, though I'm not sure if Damian Jurado's 'Cannonball' will make the cut...will have to see on game day. Looking forward to everyone's list and some discussion about what was included and why. Not sure if that makes sense in this space or at the actual meeting but still plenty to go over.

As for the road trip, we could probably spend lots of time coming up with a set of criteria for what constitutes good road music (first one to mention Tom Cochrane without irony is kicked off the blog...ha ha ha, no i'm serious), I'm gonna go the easy route and throw out my list of 'California' songs, some classic, some not so classic:

10. Los Angeles - Frank Black




9. I Left My Wallet in El Segundo - A Tribe Called Quest

8. Straight Outta Compton - NWA

7. Going Back to Cali - LL Cool J

6. Unfair - Pavement



5. Santa Monica - Everclear

4. I Hate (California Girls) - Magnetic Fields




3. California (All the Way) - Luna



2. Going to California - Led Zepellin

1. Mama's and the Papa's, of course

I've held off on looking at Kyle's list so as not to sully my thoughts. Brian et al. as for a get together, i will be out of town from Dec 18th to Jan 5 ...oh, and i need to put together a playlist for a road trip to CALIFORNIA! ya baby!

Working on a list has caused me to pull out and spin some tunes from the decade that i have not given a fair shake ...it's a good thing. I am also surprised by how much music that i was quite fond of was released just prior to the turn of the century.

Kyle you're putting us all to shame for Christ's sake. I knew you'd been noodling on your top 100 for a while but somehow didn't imagine it ever coming out (umm, maybe that's more MY thing). It's a great list, gotta say. Very rounded, very inclusive, yet very Kyle. I've looked at it a few times, and there's a fair bit of music that I don't know, which is always fun. Lots to explore.

And since I am planning on unveiling my ambitious top ten albums list (wow! ....OK, I'll think about songs too) in the upcoming week or two, I can comment on the overlap. There are definitely signs of cross-pollination in there; you have three of my top ten in your top ten (you usurping bastard) and a few more BD top tens on the rest of the 100. Interestingly though, four of my toppers aren't on your list at all. A couple of which don't surprise me (odd choices on my part), a couple of which do. I won't give 'em away though, gotta leave some suspense.

In terms of beloved-but-non-top-tenners that would have made a long list for me, a few potentially in your wheelhouse that jumped out were Andrew Bird (Armchair), Kings of Convenience (Quiet - which I warmed up and up to over the decade), something by Damien Jurado (I adore "And Now That I'm in Your Shadow", which still might squeak into my top ten, but others in his oeuvre are v. good), something by Beulah (Coast is Never Clear?), and also something by Matt Pond (say, Measure or Green Fury).

Looking forward to the listening party, have we agreed to wait to January? I'll make an early suggestion that Mike makes the trip to the Big Smoke to come down for a weekend and bring along his noughty best. In which case, lets look at calendars to help that along.

I do plan on posting my top 100 songs as well, but am still working on the final list and ranking.
Also, it has been pointed out that I failed to include the first Sigur Ros album, which I indeed love to bits but was listed on allmusic.com as being released in 1999. If we agree that it was only released domestically in 2000 (think I bought the pricy import a few months prior), then I'm happy to include it prominently on my list. Let me know if there are any others dubious omissions, iyo.

Egads man, you ranked them, and 100 at that!!

Will need some spare time to digest your comprehensive list. I could use some of that bountiful spare time you have while on the road that allows you to devise such a list. When are we getting together to spin the top 500 (5 guys x 100 different albums, just saying) albums of the noughties?

Also, appropos of nada, my top 100 albums of the decade.

100
Blueberry Boat
Fiery Furnaces
99
Berlin Serengeti
Radio Citizen
98
And Yet And Yet
Do Make Say Think
97
Tanto Tempo*
Bebel Gilberto
96
War of the Waking Phantoms
The High Dials
95
Trials of the Van Occupier
Midlake
94
In Ghost Colours
Cut Copy
93
Vekatimist
Grizzly Bear
91
Silent Alarm
Bloc Party
91
Len Parrot's Memorial Lift
Baxter Dury
90
The Visualz Anthology
Siah & Yeshua
89
Lift Your Skinny Fists like Antennas to Heaven
Godspeed You Black Emperor
88
Bitte Orca
Dirty Projectors
87
Deadringer
RJD2
86
Lust Lust Lust
Raveonettes
85
The Many Moods of Ben Benjamin , Vol. 1
Ben Benjamen
84
The Great Eastern*
The Delgados
83
Cease to Begin
Band of Horses
82
Phrenology
The Roots
81
The Stage Names
Okkervil River
80
From Here We Go Sublime
The Field
79
Franz Ferdinand
Franz Ferdinand
78
What We Must
Jaga Jazzist
77
Good News for People Who Like Bad News
Modest Mouse
76
Cibelle
Cibelle
75
Feels
Animal Collective
74
Close to Paradise
Patrick Watson
73
Finally We Are No One
Mum
72
Before the Dawn Heals Us
M83
71
Rings Around the World
Super Furry Animals
70
The Long Goodbye
The Essex Green
69
Poses
Rufus Wainwright
68
Joyful Rebellion
K-os
67
The Fast Rise and Fall of the South
The Kingsbury Manx
66
Back to Black
Amy Winehouse
65
I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning
Bright Eyes
64
Microcastle
Deerhunter
63
The Sophware Slump
Grandaddy
62
The Besnard Lakes Are the Dark Horse
The Besnard Lakes
61
The Eraser
Thom Yorke
60
Five Roses
Miracle Fortress
59
Andorra
Caribou
58
Walking With Thee
Clinic
57
Alligator
The National
56
One Bedroom
The Sea and Cake
55
Black Sheep Boy
Okkervil River
54
For Emma, For Ever Ago
Bon Iver
53
Parc Avenue
Plants & Animals
52
The Life Pursuit
Belle and Sebastian
51
Our Endless Numbered Days
Iron & Wine
50
Oh, Inverted World
The Shins
49
The Reminder
Feist
48
Fleet Foxes
Fleet Foxes
47
Z
My Morning Jacket
46
Person Pitch
Panda Bear
45
The City
Fembots
44
Post-War
M.Ward
43
Arular
M.I.A.
42
Vieux Farka Toure
Vieux Farka Toure
41
Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga
Spoon
40
Transatlanticism
Death Cab for Cutie
39
Yours, Mine & Ours
Pernice Brothers
38
Specialist in All Styles
Orchestra Baobob
37
Late Registration
Kanye West
36
The Glow Part 2
The Microphones
35
Neon Bible
Arcade Fire
34
Pushin' On
Quantic Soul Orchestra
33
And Then Nothing Turned Itself Inside Out
Yo La Tengo
32
Sao Paulo Confessions
Suba
31
Cast of Thousands
Elbow
30
Sea Change
Beck
29
Picaresque
The Decemberists
28
Bows + Arrows
The Walkmen
27
Veneer
Jose Gonzalez
26
Thirteen Tales of Urban Bohemia
The Dandy Warhols
25
Melody A.M.
Royksopp
24
Since I Left You
The Avalanches
23
Figure 8
Elliot Smith
22
Speakerboxx/The Love Below
Outkast
21
Simple Things
Zero 7
20
Set Yourself on Fire
Stars
19
Madvillainy
Madvillian
18
Return to Cookie Mountain
TV on the Radio
17
You Forgot it in People
Broken Social Scene
16
Antics
Interpol
15
The Electric Version
The New Pornographers
14
The Grey Album
Danger Mouse
13
Tourist
St. Germain
12
Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots
The Flaming Lips
11
In Rainbows
Radiohead
10
Waltz for Koop
Koop
9
Chutes Too Narrow
The Shins
8
Feast of Wire
Calexico
7
Is This It?
The Strokes
6
Fox Confessor Brings the Flood
Neko Case
5
Come On Feel the Illinoise
Sufjan Stevens
4
Hour of the Bewilderbeast
Badly Drawn Boy
3
Kid A
Radiohead
2
Funeral
Arcade Fire
1
Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
Wilco

*indicates those that were added after the list was posted and i realized i had somehow left them off the initial list

Great minds think alike, Mike. I've been reluctant to spend the time going back through my downloads and rating them, for the same reason: would it be worthwhile? Haven't had the time to sit down and go through all those downloads (have been a member for 5 years and w/ 90 downloads per month, there's a lot through which to sift) but may try to get to it sometime soon.

Hey Mike, no, I've never tried using the feedback function. Sill the new format seems to do a pretty good job of suggesting music, mostly old jazz in my case. It becomes a bit of a loop I get stuck in, where I download some or all of the five or six albums on the home page, end up using most of my monthlies, and so get recommended the same type of thing again. And there do seem to be a ridiculous number of old jazz albums coming out of the woodwork.

Have any of you emusic.com users spent the time to rate the various albums that you've downloaded using the tools that they provide? I think that the idea is that if you rate things consistently, the site will be better able to suggest new music that is in line with your tastes. I've never bothered to rank anything on the site, but I'm considering taking the time to do it retroactively, and I'm wondering how effective the system is.

I will have to revisit Rattle and Hum, based on Stuart's comments and Marc's continued promotion of its merits. I bought the album (okay, cassette...but it was the 80s and I did have high speed dubbing on my pitiful little home stereo) when it came out and I was 17 years old so perhaps, some 21 years on, and with different sensibilities, I may enjoy it a lot more now. Unfortunately, I no longer possess any equipment that can play cassettes. But I digress.

I'm really buying your GOTT (Go Over The Top) over JTS (Jump the Shark) thesis Marc. And I'm wondering if GOTT the key to a band's longevity? Is this just a fancy new phrase that equals plain old risk-taking?

Regardless, you're probably right in that, if U2 had simply re-released a Joshua-Tree-like followup in either 1988 or 1991, they would likely have been resigned to the dustbin of the 1980s or the casinos of the 21st century. I would argue that it was the second of the three albums you've identified--Achtung Baby--that was the represented the biggest shift and perhaps the most conscious shift towards both a different sound and a self-referential attitude to their role as a band and their place in the pop culture pantheon.

Released on November 19, 1991 (though the first single came out at least a month earlier), some two months after the seminal, arguably era-defining album by a certain band from Seattle, Achtung Baby was represented a big stylistic and musical shift for the band. While listening to previous records conjured up images of The Edge standing in a grassy field outside Dublin, wailing on his guitar and looking stoically in the distance, this album seemed to channel more of a futuristic urban dystopia, albeit with some brighter moments ("One", is far more hopeful than "The Fly"); in other words, a completely different atmosphere, albeit very different from the grunge sensibility that would soon envelop the pop scene. Perhaps it was the production. Or the newfound embrace of electronic elements. Regardless, this was a definite shift and very successful one for the band.

Agree, too, that most of their stuff from the past 10 years isn't very interesting. I liked "Vertigo" but everything else has generated little more than a yawn. Still, props given for a band that, 21 years plus on, doesn't evoke groans a la Jagger, Richards et al.

I must admit I have come around to liking Rattle & Hum , much more then I used to , ( Thanks to Marc 's persistence) I view it as a much more satisfying mid carreer regrouping , then say John Lennons Rock and Roll...I cant argue with the quality that came immediately after this for U2 as marc points out. Also, the idea of having studio and live tracks, is one I actually like, as it freshens the concept...The Last Waltz is another of the few examples of this, and both work.
Finally though I tend to be more an albums man, then a singles man, I have to admit to being completely captivated by this single from Goldfrapp which was a source of great comfort during my dark days battling those 2 months of headaches...album is not bad too, but this is the standout track.

I had no idea that "jumping the shark" had become such an acknowledged expression. Imagine my surprise to find that there are actually 18 ways to jump the shark!

Brian, i find it interesting that you refer to U2's shift as jumping the shark. I may agree with you that perhaps it was a legitimate shark jump but i rather see it as an insightful self awareness. No one can argue U2's phenomenal popular success, least alone the members of the band. I think that the three albums that followed Jtree were brilliant for their post modern acknowledgement of what the art /pop of U2 had become. The stadium show had become huge and rivalled those of the great dinosaur groups. Rattle and Hum, Achtung Baby and Zooropa played upon the absurdity of the fame that the band had achieved. The band redefined themselves with each album and, although they were much of the time over the top, (perhaps even over the shark), the music had to grow to the crescendo that the live act had become. Had the band not gone over the top, i would submit that the band might well have faded to the status of also ran, as so many 80's bands did! ...now, appearing at Casino Rama ...(fill in the blank)!

I think this refers back to recurring a conversation: what will we ALL be listening to in common in the future that is being produced now, or has been in the last decade? Could it be that U2 is the last Mega pop/rock group with any artistic merit that will achieve such success in our lifetime? (and i'm not suggesting that you sods are all listening to U2)


I think that U2 became an also ran after Zooropa. I'm glad they went over the top first! Their recent releases bore the hell out of me. ...funny for a band whose music i still listen to on a regular basis and never tire of.

Hey Marc, great to have you back in the fold, and to hear a dissenting voice on the live recording issue. And I agree with some of what you've said. Certainly when you and I were growing up in the seventies/early eighties, the live album was an absolute in the repertoire...often a substitute for a third release as new-ish bands went through rehab after two years of coke-fueled touring. Maybe I'm generalizing a bit there. I don't share your love of Rattle and Hum ( I would almost say that's when U2 jumped the shark), though I do like a couple of the songs

Thanks for all of your thoughts on cool recent releases. Ahem. Adding to the huge list we're building together, I would mention the new Lou Barlow is really nice if not essential, and the Most Serene Republic's is really good.

You know it's been too long since your last post when you can't remember your sign-in password!

I think that the live album is an essential part of pop/rock. It's not for every artist, granted, but nor is live performance if you ask me. I agree that the live album has largely been supplanted by YouTube and illicit shared recording and would also agree that artists these days don't stick around for long enough or aren't strong enough to develop significant oeuvres which might warrant a live retrospective of a career.

I do think that the live recordings, whether they be in an album or not, are indispensable in understanding some of the great artists. Think of the significance of Woodstock or Monetary and the importance of the live recording to our understanding of the times. Where would we be without the oodles of live Hendrix tracks? I guess it could be argued that Hendrix was actually a jazz musician and that for the sake of the argument we have to leave him out. ...such a short life and so few got to hear his magic live ...you gonna take that away from the rest of us?

I think most would agree that the capturing of many of these moments is essential in recording the spirit of a time and if it ends up in the Library of Congress where some scholar is gonna dig it up in 50 years ...well that don't cut it with me, you gotta lay down the lacquer.

The live recording or album affords an artist another medium to relate an idea. There is a strong tradition of cover tunes on live albums ...significant renditions of standards, similar to the jazz tradition, that would not otherwise make it to a larger audience. The medium allows for that expression without getting all pretentious and getting into the studio and, these days, spending a week getting the track down so it is just right. Sometimes the quick and dirty does the trick.

I can say that i don't spend a lot of time listening to live albums, but, one that gets a lot of circulation is Rattle n' Hum. Now, granted, it's not entirely a live album. It contains original material, but what it does so remarkably is convey the sense of being on the road. The endless shows and a sort of solitude, the exhilaration, the discovery, the stress, the inspiration, the energy. I know a lot of people right off the album but they got it all wrong. They are shallow individuals!

Fascinating how we really know some artists by their live work, Jackson Browne, Cheap Trick and Peter Frampton to name a few that were previously mentioned.

Artist such as Nirvana have let us see another side of them when they perform an album like Unplugged. ...that's cool. Cockburn, Lou Reed, Neil Young all have live music that i feel has added to our understanding of the artist. The list goes on but everyone knows i'm not good with lists.

I have to admit that i don't listen to my copy of Springsteen's 75-85 very often, but i'm glad that i will be able to drop the needle on it 30 years from now and remember MY summer of love.

Might i go so far out on a limb as to say that the quality of live music has declined? I'm not sure i believe it myself, but, are musicians really all that competent with their instruments and their song writing skills these days? Why are they spending a half year in the studio to produce an album that it might have taken a day or a week to produce in the good old days? ...and the old classics endure while many of us might agree, there is much less that endures in this day and age. I don't wanna come off sounding like an old fart, but, are pop musicians these days relying too much on production and engineering?

...i listen to a band like the Arcade Fire (been around long enough to reflect on) and i would say not, i still love the music, i loved the show i saw at the Danforth Music Hall, i heard a podcast of a live show from New York, it was exciting, do i need to hear it again? No.

So ...the live recording of Paranoid Android by Brad Mehldau on Live from Tokyo ...i love it, but that's Jazz for ya!

Hey boys, sorry I missed out on the live recordings discussion, though I think you covered off most of my thoughts. If anything I thought the convo could have been directed towards other genre live recordings - jazz of course springs to mind, where live recordings are generally better thought of. And the question would be, why is that? Some of my most joyous, cathartic moments have been at live rock shows, generally small clubs. And yet by and large the recordings can't translate the experience. And while I adore jazz in all of its forms and formats, something about studio jazz is less different than live jazz. ie live jazz works better as a record. Think of Bill Evans live at the Village Vanguard (or Coltrane, or Rollins etc). Jazz is generally less adorned of course, so the studio is less important, but wouldn't that be true as well of rock and roll, punk, where the studio can potentially ruin the energy and spontaneity?

On another subject - any recent pop/rock discoveries? emusic or otherwise. I'm very fond of a record by The Leisure Society, really gorgeous chamber pop with a vocal emphasis. To my ear quite unique sounding within the (perhaps) over-developed genre.

Yeah, I've never understood the point of live dvds. Think Paul Rudd's character captures my feelings in his comments about Michael McDonald playing all day in "40 Year Old Virgin":

To your point about Jagger singing "Start Me Up", I completely agree. If a band records a live album that is essentially a greatest hits package played identically to the studio renditions, I have no interest in it. What I really like are songs whose live recordings exceed their original studio versions. For example, the version of "Rhiannon" on Fleetwood Mac live or the version of "Astronomy" on Some Enchanted Evening are both much better than the originals. In other cases, a song can be completely reinterpreted with great effect - such as Springsteen's take of Jungleland on his live box set. Finally, I enjoy it when artists show their personalities with entertaining banter between songs as Tom Waits does in "Big Time". But I think its true that live albums are no longer as relevant as they once were. I guess they've been supplanted by concert DVDs to some extent. But for some reason I have no real interest in collecting those. I like to watch them once, but don't feel compelled to watch them repeatedly, unlike the live albums that I wore out in my youth.

Tenuous segues are far preferable to completely ignoring someone's last post and starting a topic afresh in a manner that suggests the poster was barely able to refrain from starting with, "ANYWAY...". So I applaud the initiative, Mike!

As for the live album, like Derek, I don't I own very many. I prefer the studio or 'finished' product, though I recognize that this may well be a contentious statement. Some might argue that a song isn't ever finished, and that years of performance can add layers of nuance or complexity to a song or strip it down into more basic elements that come across as organic, cleaner, fresher... I'm willing to entertain that argument if directed to some examples but most of the live performances I've experienced in recorded version--watching on television or listening to on a stereo--are usually either pale imitations of the recorded versions (think Mick Jagger singing 'Start Me Up' on stage anytime over the past 25 years) or full of improvisational flourishes (Sting peppring a rendition 'Roxanne' with jazz scat, something I witnessed on television over 20 years ago but still makes me shudder to this day) that irritate more than improve.

Whenever I'm sitting around and listing albums with friends and a live album is mentioned, it is usually pointed out, rather quickly that the album is 'just' a live album, an almost knee-jerk reaction to qualify that suggests, to me, that on some level, we don't believe the live album counts towards an artists' legacy.

It is interesting that most of those albums you list are from the 1970s. I started buying music around the end of that decade and I guess the music I was into in the early to mid 80s didn't translate all that well to live performance (heavy synth, layered guitar, tortured vocals). While this may well be why I don't own as many, I do get the sense, from trolling through different websites, that there's a bit of a consensus that the live album reached its zenith in that decade. Did the 80s kill the live album?

To Derek's point that the relative ease with which we can find and play a seemingly infinite number of live performances may spell the end of the live album for good. But I'm guessing that there will always be completists who will want to own (by which I mean, have in their possession rather than bought) every possible recorded version of a band's output, even if these can be retrieved at any time on a handheld device within seconds. Those of you who seek out torrents can attest to the size and scope of some of the 'complete' collections of a band you may have assumed only released a handful of albums. Not sure if this means record companies will continue to release live albums but then again, there may not be such a thing as a record company in the near future.

I probably own somewhere around 2500 non-jazz or classical recordings and I can count on both hands the number of live albums in that collection. For me at least live recordings are simply not an integral part of an artists body of work.

The few times that I have been inspired to seek out a live album has usually been the result of witnessing a truly great live performance by the artist in question. I remember distinctly in the summer of 1982 attending the Police Picnic at Exhibition Stadium and being totally floored by the Talking Heads large ensemble performance and immediately after the show heading up Yonge Street with some buddies to purchase the double live album "The Name of This Band is Talking Heads" at Sam the Record Man. Probably one of my two favourite live albums. The other being Peter Gabriel's "Plays Live", the purchase again was spurred by seeing him twice at the Gardens and putting on brilliant performances.

A few of the other live albums I own by the Smiths and the Jam for example barely register for me in the band's catalogue.

Back in the day when attending 3 or 4 shows in a given month wasn't unusual I should have been much more receptive to seeking out a live album but somehow failed to end up with the more than 10 or so that I have. Not really sure why that is but these days when I am lucky to get out to 1 or 2 shows a year the likelihood of me rushing out to find a live performance of any act is much slimmer. Even someone I adore like Neko Case who happens to have all of her studio releases sitting in my cd rack is sadly absent her 2004 "Tigers Have Spoken" live album.

I notice Mike that most of the live albums you've listed are 30-40 years old and by fairly well established artists. Is there some sort of minimum album output that a band should reach before anyone feels it necessary to hear them recorded live? In this day of shortened band lifespans are we likely to see many more "live" albums especially given that you can dial up almost any band you care to mention and find a live performance somewhere on the internet.

And one more point re recorded live performances what is the impetus behind this sudden reuniting of aged musicians to peform live an entire so called classic album. Were bands doing this in the 70s, 80s and 90s. If so I don't recall.

This is a tenuous segue, but Kyle's opera post dealt with a live performance (and, as an aside, I also found the review amusing. It must be extraordinarily frustrating to have one's stellar vocal performance in an opera completely overshadowed by innovative but critically skewered staging and direction) and I have been thinking about live performances lately. It is generally true of independent acts that they come across better live than in the studio. But most successful bands overcome this issue, and generate studio albums that define them. Some bands, however, seem to be definitively captured by live recordings. A few examples culled from my own collection are:
- Greatest Stories Live by Harry Chapin
- Cheap Trick Live at Budakahn
- The Last Waltz by the Band
- Frampton Comes Alive
- Neil Diamond's Hot August Night
- An Evening with John Denver
- Ted Nugent's Double Live Gonzo

Several other live albums rate among my personal favorites for certain performers, although I can't claim that these are generally considered "definitive":
- Stop Making Sense by the Talking Heads
- Bruce Springsteen Live 1975-1985
- Big Time by Tom Waits
- Neil Young - Live Rust
- Fleetwood Mac Live
- Some Enchanted Evening by Blue Oyster Cult
- Rheostatics - Double Live
- Hiatt Comes Alive at Budakahn by John Hiatt& the Guilty Dogs
- Queen Live Killers

The question for the group is - what are your thoughts about live recordings vs. studio recordings? Are they significant elements of an artist's body of work? Or are they just commercial endeavors that don't fundamentally impact a given artist's importance or legacy.

Know we don't post often on Opera and this review is less about the quality of the vocal performances than it is about the stage direction but I found it highly entertaining nonetheless.

I find myself curiously uninterested in hearing the new Beatles tracks. They were my favorite band for the longest time - I suppose they still are, but the music has become too familiar to engender any excitement or thrill anymore. Hearing the songs with modern technology to enhance the sound has only a mild academic interest for me. I guess I'm neither an audiophile or a collector at heart.

A great suggestion re: your birthday gift, Bri. An even better suggestion, I think, would be this. A far more managable $5 w/ shipping. Whadda you think guys?

Well I'm pretty interested to hear the Beatles music, given all the comments I've heard about it coming to life etc. It's probably the pop music I know best, listened to the most, etc, so the idea of it being refreshed is intriguing. The cost, not as intriguing. Of course, it is my birthday on Monday. It would only be $50 a CD club member or so. And I'd be willing to share them (eventually) .

Also, initial digital album thoughts: yawn! A bunch of videos and art that I can look at on my pc/mac? Isn't that called a (free) website? Hardly seems worth the 40% markup at this point. Hope to be proven wrong by a future kickass version but for now, I'll save my ducats.

I think it would be worthwhile, and certainly cathartic, to itemize all the reasons I despise Dave Matthews but let's leave as a rhetorical for now.

As for the Fab 4's new digitalized remastered mono and stereo versions, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be buying/downgrading with the intention of restoring their collection to its original purity(mono)/upgrading with the benefit of hearing the sweat dripping down george harrison's back (stereo) with this new set. I have most if not all the Beatles albums I think I want or need already (Help, Rubber Soul, Revolver, Magical, Sgt. Peppers, White, Abbey, Let it Be) so I'm not sure why I'm supposed to shell out another $190 or $260 . Or should I join the legions of 21st century gamers? Wondering if someone can explain the merits to me. Otherwise, I'm going to put all my disposable cash into a robotic floorvac.

Ha! What is it about Dave Mathews that is so bloody annoying? Please treat that question as rhetorical.

Any excitement about this release? I'm definitely interested in hearing them.

Now that it has been launched, I'm not sure if you'll find these new digital lps compelling but the product demo makes me wonder if there's an application I can download that will allow me to never have to hear a Dave Matthews song.

How to pick your new favourite indie band.

fellow beasts,

the etymology/ontogenesis of metabeats

1) since this is a place where we think about how we think about music, thought that the word 'meta' fit, at least in terms of its definition as an abstraction from another concept. thus metabeats is sharing how we felt (feeling the feeling, therefore meta) about a particular piece of music (beats)

2) it sounds cool

the other option would have been to just give it a simple name, like 'Barry'. but i thought this would be too cute by half.

as for stuart's suggestion that the video may distract from the song, it's a valid point but allow me to add this twist: i rarely watch the video itself.

once i find the song on youtube, i'll alt-tab over to another application and continuing doing something else while enjoying the song. youtube is just an easier place to find the song and provide a link or embed a track than any other site. granted, when i search for a song, i do try to find the best video or one that appears to be the 'official' video, so on some level, i must assume that you want to watch it, even if i don't. or perhaps i just want the option of alt-tabbing back to watch, should it strike my fancy. i'll spare you any further self-exploration as this is meta-enough for today.

as we head into the long weekend, though, any music that you're planning on playing?

Oops, OK I am editing that one! Simply for the sake of clarity (not out of any sense of embarrassment...), and thereby rendering your comment incomprehensible.

I've always assumed we were using definition 4b: "Derived from by a loss of water".

And to your point, Stuart - I've never liked the whole idea of music videos. Sure there have been some entertaining ones over the years, but I do find them to be generally a distraction from the music. The only ones I consistently like are those that simply show the band playing the song.

By the way - very nice little Freudian slip there, Brian.

Metabeast is awesome. It's actually the way I think of myself. Particularly the meta part. The meaning of which, incidentally, I debated with my friend Steve Ketola the other day. He very confidently stated that it meant "above" in Greek. I had thought it more like "beside" or "beyond". In fact, looking at the definition on m-w, it looks like like it is one of the more complex (and flexible) prefixes around. Which leaves me with the question, what did each of you think we've been meaning by Metabeats all these years?

Another nomination from me, a great track from a record that perhaps didn't get the kudos it deserved because the man in question made the poor career move of stabbing himself in the chest before releasing it. I say that in jest but actually am (or certainly was) v. saddened by it. From a Basement might be my favourite record of his.

apologies for the spelling this time , see below, but I think i prefer the name metabeast, what do you "louts" think. Clearly there is a greater chance girls will stumble onto the site with that name ......

Ivebeen checking out the picks from you lout from the last few weeks shown on metabeast and it occurs to me that seeing a new track for the first time as a youtube video is quite different from only hearing the audio. Not sure this is a good thing as it is a distraction from the music itself....
ok so I should just get over this, but still.....