we is rockin' out to the A.H. ...have been for weeks...ok, ok, i ploughed through it a couple of times when i first got it...Warren has been served notice of his duties!

metaBeats

Well, now that the American election has ended to my satisfaction, time to focus back on the CD club.

(a) Is everyone listening to Honneger?

(b) Has anyone (other than me and Derek) even bought Honneger?

I'm assuming "no" to question b, and would like to add some encouraging words. Get on it boys, this is very serious business.

Has anyone mentioned to Warren that he is being asked to break out of his (let's face it pretty narrow though cool) comfort zone for a week Monday? Won't he be bummed if he's the only guy who's not completely diggin' the Honneger?

Interesting points lads, and its your flatulant comments about the Band, Kyle , that brought to my mind the earlier debate about sincerety in music, and at the risk of being boring, I wonder if the whole live music debates sums up similarly.... that A) Pop bands in particular playing the same songs over and over again must sap all emotional integrity out of the music leaving it dead or "insincere"..
B) Seeing many live shows-- we all have experienced the somewhat rare event of a pop band giving its fuckin all (think arcade fire lees palace) .....and then some... but I bet next year it would not be as fresh for them or us.
C) Jazz artists have an extra chance at it because of the variations and independant experimentation which constantly evolves and changes there live shows nightly.

I have several of the Peel session 12" and I like pretty much all of them. The Slits, the Undertones and Madness are all personal faves. They always came with at least 4 tracks and for $5 at the time were a pretty good intro to any band that you weren't quite sure what they were all about. One thing Peelie did better than anyone else, Soundscapes included, was suss out all the music that everyone else seemed to overlook. An invaluable resource when there is so much music out there.

I guess what I'm saying is that once it's recorded it kind of loses its exciting qualities, some of which are attributable to what the musician or singer does and some that are beyond his/her like the acoustics of the venue or quality of the instruments that day (did the humidity in the tour bus adversely affect the string tension on the guitar, does the dj need a new belt on the ole wheels o' steel?) and that yes, a 'live recording' is a paradox. If I've been fortunate enough to experience a great live show then it's probably better to savour that memory rather than try to recreate it with a recording...

...Peel sessions. I'm embarassed to say that I haven't really listened to many of the sessions. I always used to browse the 12-inches in the 1980s and heard some that friends bought in that time period but never bought any myself. I recall that a lot of the live recordings were crappy, an opinion consistent with my thoughts above. However, for those who want to sample some of the Peel sessions you may have missed, this website has some downloadable recordings, including this live version of "Here" by Pavement.

metaBeats
So what you are saying kyle, is that a live album is an oxymoron and cannot, in reality, exists? ...either it's a recording or it's live?

I must say, tangentially, that i am frequently blown away by the sound quality of a live broadcast of someone playing in a radio studio, even if its some guy with a guitar in the basement at Rhy high, it sounds so different, full and alive that it makes you think about all the music (sound) which is being lost for the convenience of the digital medium.

How considerate of John Peel to die when we were having a discussion about what constitutes live music. I've always found the Peel Sessions to be very hit and miss. Anyone have any favourites?

Also, I don't know if anyone had heard that John Peel passed away this week. There is a nice piece about him in Slate today. You can also drive yourself insane as I have at this site, by checking the daily US electoral map to see how things might shake out in all the swing states. Go Kerry Go!!!

Time to chime in...where to start?

First, I'd like to say that it's unfair that Stuart has been much maligned for his lax syntactic standards when he really should be dirided for championing a 'best' version of 'The Night they Drove Ole' Dixie Down'. All props to The Band and their fans aside, a live version of this track does not excite me. I'm really not a big fan of folsky songs that tell me a story or recount some tragedy. Also, the inclusion of the word 'ole' in the title gets my back up...it's just too hokey.

Second, when pondering Derek's (great, btw) topic, I couldn't come up with one live album that I really liked but was able to think of a lot of crappy live albums. I think this is because it's impossible to replicate the experience of a live show.

To me, Wilco did a far better representation of the tracks on their recent album in concert than they did in the studio, though why they chose to close the encore with the excessively shitty 'Late Greats' is a bit of a mystery. And the Tortoise show earlier this year really kicked ass, sounding even better than their recent albums. But would recorded versions of those shows be just as exciting when I listened to them at home? Probably not. Context is all.

I agree, Marc, that ‘Rattle and Hum’ probably captures what it’s like to be on tour. The problem with that record, for me, is that I don’t care. You got to play with B.B. King? Great. Do I want to hear you jam together? Not really. It seemed a little self-indulgent but I know quite a few people who disagree with me and think it's an awesome record.

Okay, what's more superfluous than a live album? How about a double live album? Or, topping that, a different live album for every show in one year’s tour, something that Pearl Jam foisted on its beloved fan base a few years ago? Can you imagine the type of freak who compares different renditions of ‘Better Man’? “Yeah, the Oakland Coliseum version was good but Eddie’s vocals at Madison Square seem a little tighter. Now the Staples Center show was a joke but the ‘Even Flow’ encore really…”. I picture myself trapped in line somewhere, without my walkman, and overhearing just such a conversation.

Finally, to answer Marc's question: I think it's live if you're witnessing, in real time, the creation of music through any means, music which can never be exactly replicated. It's an awkward and I'm sure wholly inadequate definiation but it's Friday morning and I'm pressed for time. Perhaps a better definition will come to me and I'll correct myself.

I've added a couple of new links to sites that I think are interesting, one of which is a link to the online version of eye weekly's anti-hit list. The other is a link to a Seattle Radio Station, KEXP, that I discoverd there on my last trip there. Enjoy.

metaBeats
All kidding aside, I think this opens up a rather interesting philosophical discussion. What is it that defines music as being live?

Is music live because it is recorded with all musicians playing simultaneously? Does the final product have to be generated from a single take, session or performance? If there is no audience is the music still live? If an orchestra sits down in a concert hall with sound baffles in the place of the audience, are they still performing a live recording on their 5th take? How much knob twiddling, dubbing, over dubbing, splicing, and dicing can an engineer do before a recording is no longer live?

…and what I really want to know is what does it mean when a dj is going to perform a “live set”

oh! and is it possible to make a live recording of someone lip syncing?

weL i Thotgh aLL jaz recors wer Live recors, an anutter ting kut w all ths spelling Krap
s

metaBeats

ooops! if you're gonna try to be funny, at least learn to spell good! or as Tom Lehrer sang "don't write naughty words on walls if you can't spell"

midi hell! go to http://members.aol.com/quentncree/lehrer/beprepar.htm

just so the typo nazi don't get me...i was trying to say
"What about live jazz? Are there any good live jazz recordings? (lol)

Finally picked up Ellington's Live @ Newport 65, smokin' tunage, but man is there a lot of chatter and introduction on the CD...think it's time to burn an edited copy!

metaBeats

I returned last night from NYC, after a 36 hour whirl wind business trip, and I have to say that for the city that claims to never sleep it’s damn hard to find something to do on a Monday night!

I was going to check out Brian Jonestown Massacre at the Mercury Lounge but it was apparently sold out so I dropped by the Knitting factory around 11:00 to see a gig called “Kerry Rising” which was a political Springsteen covers night…thought it might be interesting…but it was over by the time I got there. By this time my tootsies are sore from having walked from the top of midtown through Soho, Greenwhich etc. down to the immense hole in the ground that once used to be the site of the WTC and back up to the Knitting factory, so I hop in a cab up to Iridium on Broadway @ 51st to catch Les Paul in action. Oooops, strike three, by the time I get there at 11:30, everyone is already pouring out of the club….time to quit and watch some late night tv!

“The city that never sleeps”….guess I just don’t know where to go!

Great live albums:

U2’s Rattle and Hum…not a live album in it’s entirety but more a chronicle of an American tour that includes a mix of new and previously released material …does not quite live up to “J tree”, but not much could. I think it works very well as a diary of a band in the middle of their career and includes some smoking work by Edge on Silver and Gold. A great portrait of the American West.

Springsteen’s triple box set of live recordings from though out his career is very well put together for a live album but is bound for glory considering his charismatic and energetic stage performances. Do we need it on top of all his great studio work? No; but it adds another level to the music as our memories of concerts with “hot chicks in tight cut-offs and tee’s” fade into the past.

What about live jazz? Are the any good live jazz recordings? (lol)

m.

"Freedom" is an unbelievably soulful number, plus Country Joe and the Fish puts a lump in my throat. The sixties were, as it turns out, pretty cool.

Don't like to be a spelling Nazi (it's a blog after all), but it's Neil "Young", Stu. How Toronto-is-the-centre-of-the-universe is that? And Rust Never Sleeps / Live Rust is a classic exception to the rule.

Maybe it comes down to planning and creating something as a live recording (as per Neil's Rust Never Sleeps, where the songs were never recorded in the studio) versus the cheap cop out of "here's what our hits sound like live....."

I cant resist a list.....
Well I agree with byou guys that the era was the 60's-70s and I generraly hate them all, but there are a few exceptions: 1) Neil Yonge (yes he counts) Live Rust (camping w the drunks at Mosport Raceway as a teenager when this came out...virginal Neil Experience)
2) Woodstock (Who can resist Richie Havens,,, FREEDOM.....)
3) The Band- Last Waltz (Best version of "The night they drove ol dixie down")
4) Johhny Cash - Live at Fulsom Prison ( as good as the hype)
5) CSNY - 4 way street (I think one of the most under rated albums of all time period. Collects the best stuff from relatively crappy solo carriers from 3 of them (CSN) and also includes a few beautiful takes of neil yonge solo gems The acoustic version of cowgirl in the sand is worth the price alone)

OK Im done
s

Live albums, eh? Good one.

They seem to me to be an anachronism at this point; almost every major act of the seventies /early eighties released one, and some of these appaling records were even their most popular - the obvious one being Peter Frampton, who never had a hit "non-live" (how about that for a genre) album; but also Fleetwood Mac, Bob Seeger, Dire Straits, the Kinks, The Stones, Led Zeppelin, Steve Miller Band, the Eagles..... yuck, that's some awful fucking music. Mind you, there is the occassional gem - like Sprinsgteen's "Rosalita" which blows away the studio version, and much of the stuff on "Live at Leeds"...."Shaking All Over" for one.

The record companies used to get away with issuing one of these as a third or fourth album to give a band a little more time to write some material...often signalling the beginning of the end. Too much blow and mindless sex I imagine. Ah, the seventies.

Anyway, hopefully these pathetic attempts to capture the live experience are behind us now; though I did note while surfing All Music yesterday that Rainer Maria's latest release is a live album. If Emo Rock goes live....look out. We were damn lucky that the Grungers spared us - can you imagine the Soungarden live at the Hollywood Bowl record?

Just sitting here quietly going about my business, listening to Britten's violin concerto, when I decided to check out the blog and here I see I'm now being coerced in to blogging. Don't actually have a hell of a lot to say but I suppose the purpose of the blog is to put down any old crap and say it like you really mean it.

Few dead seconds there as I struggled to come up with a semi-plausible discussion topic. And here it is. Live albums!!!

I bring it up as Neko Case's new live disc (recorded at Lee's Palace) comes out in a few weeks. What I'd like some of you chappies to do is fill me in on why we need the damn things. Perhaps what I'm hoping you'll do is let me know of any "live" records that I should have in my collection because of approx 2500 records I can't think of more than 2 or 3 that would qualify and they sure haven't seen a spin on the old deck in many a moon. Does Neil Young count?

Doesn't the entire bootleg scene survive on people passing along live recordings? I understand (well not really) the need for the obsessive collector to obtain every possible song the band has ever performed. Just gotta have that recording of Luna doing Soundgarden's "Jesus Christ Pose".

Personally as soon as I hear the words "live album" I run the other way. Alright my violin concerto is over so I have to go and cue up some more music in Winamp.

Would somebody BLOG, for Christ's Sake!

Luna breaks up! Sad but not entirely unexpected.
More info here at their website. They're playing here in a few weeks but I've seen them 3 times already and I'm more content to listen to them on disc than I am to pack myself into a crowded Lee's Palace to witness the swan song.

metaBeats

I luv William Shatner.

Lucy......


.........in the sky...........


....with diamonds.

Pauses so pregnant they have babies by the end or the verse!

I caught a snippet of the his new album on d.n.t.o. (cbc 1) and they described it as being the height of self parity. Now if that is not a concept that could only exist in a post modern world, i don't know what is!