Love the post modern take on California music guys, ie a lot of these writers are looking at the anti-dream rather than the promise. But come come, two California lists without the Beach Boys ?! You can, as I do, eschew most or all of the "00"s" Pitchfork idolization of everything Brian Wilson (I've railed about this in previous blogs), but to exclude Beach Boys from a list of Cali music seems just mean. For me Good Vibrations is their peak.

Other necessities would include something by the Byrds - the greatest LA band of all time in my humble view - I would suggest Mr. Tambourine Man for its dreamy (literally) qualities. Since we're talking about LA, what abotu the Doors LA Woman? Nice. And Buffalo Springfield's "For What it's Worth" about the riots on Sunset Strip. Fanstatic. Millions more from the sixties, Grateful Dead, Sanatana, Moby Grape, Quicksilver, Jefferson Airplane, the list goes one (Marc, methinks I'm making you a disk).

And moving on, something from the 70's So Cal scene - the much blogged Jackson Browne (say, Doctor My Eyes), or hell if we're sticking to literal references why not Eagles "Hotel California". On a more modern note, "Unfair" would be my first choice (good job KP), but how about Luna's "California", or wait, that fairly wretched opening song from the OC (Kyle please insert title).

OK it's time I started working.

I'm still working on my 20xx list, but I can contribute a few ideas to the California playlist concept. I couldn't find videos for all of them:

1. California Stars by Wilco



2. California Dreamline by Rheostatics




3. Goodnight California by Kathleen Edwards



4. California by Low



5. Not California by Hem



6. California by Josh Ritter



7. Come a Long Way by Michelle Shocked



8. Losing California by Sloan



9. I Remember California by REM

10. San Andreas Fault by Nathalie Marchant

Brian, 'Toxic Girl' by Kings of C., will definitely be on the top songs list, though I'm not sure if Damian Jurado's 'Cannonball' will make the cut...will have to see on game day. Looking forward to everyone's list and some discussion about what was included and why. Not sure if that makes sense in this space or at the actual meeting but still plenty to go over.

As for the road trip, we could probably spend lots of time coming up with a set of criteria for what constitutes good road music (first one to mention Tom Cochrane without irony is kicked off the blog...ha ha ha, no i'm serious), I'm gonna go the easy route and throw out my list of 'California' songs, some classic, some not so classic:

10. Los Angeles - Frank Black




9. I Left My Wallet in El Segundo - A Tribe Called Quest

8. Straight Outta Compton - NWA

7. Going Back to Cali - LL Cool J

6. Unfair - Pavement



5. Santa Monica - Everclear

4. I Hate (California Girls) - Magnetic Fields




3. California (All the Way) - Luna



2. Going to California - Led Zepellin

1. Mama's and the Papa's, of course

I've held off on looking at Kyle's list so as not to sully my thoughts. Brian et al. as for a get together, i will be out of town from Dec 18th to Jan 5 ...oh, and i need to put together a playlist for a road trip to CALIFORNIA! ya baby!

Working on a list has caused me to pull out and spin some tunes from the decade that i have not given a fair shake ...it's a good thing. I am also surprised by how much music that i was quite fond of was released just prior to the turn of the century.

Kyle you're putting us all to shame for Christ's sake. I knew you'd been noodling on your top 100 for a while but somehow didn't imagine it ever coming out (umm, maybe that's more MY thing). It's a great list, gotta say. Very rounded, very inclusive, yet very Kyle. I've looked at it a few times, and there's a fair bit of music that I don't know, which is always fun. Lots to explore.

And since I am planning on unveiling my ambitious top ten albums list (wow! ....OK, I'll think about songs too) in the upcoming week or two, I can comment on the overlap. There are definitely signs of cross-pollination in there; you have three of my top ten in your top ten (you usurping bastard) and a few more BD top tens on the rest of the 100. Interestingly though, four of my toppers aren't on your list at all. A couple of which don't surprise me (odd choices on my part), a couple of which do. I won't give 'em away though, gotta leave some suspense.

In terms of beloved-but-non-top-tenners that would have made a long list for me, a few potentially in your wheelhouse that jumped out were Andrew Bird (Armchair), Kings of Convenience (Quiet - which I warmed up and up to over the decade), something by Damien Jurado (I adore "And Now That I'm in Your Shadow", which still might squeak into my top ten, but others in his oeuvre are v. good), something by Beulah (Coast is Never Clear?), and also something by Matt Pond (say, Measure or Green Fury).

Looking forward to the listening party, have we agreed to wait to January? I'll make an early suggestion that Mike makes the trip to the Big Smoke to come down for a weekend and bring along his noughty best. In which case, lets look at calendars to help that along.

I do plan on posting my top 100 songs as well, but am still working on the final list and ranking.
Also, it has been pointed out that I failed to include the first Sigur Ros album, which I indeed love to bits but was listed on allmusic.com as being released in 1999. If we agree that it was only released domestically in 2000 (think I bought the pricy import a few months prior), then I'm happy to include it prominently on my list. Let me know if there are any others dubious omissions, iyo.

Egads man, you ranked them, and 100 at that!!

Will need some spare time to digest your comprehensive list. I could use some of that bountiful spare time you have while on the road that allows you to devise such a list. When are we getting together to spin the top 500 (5 guys x 100 different albums, just saying) albums of the noughties?

Also, appropos of nada, my top 100 albums of the decade.

100
Blueberry Boat
Fiery Furnaces
99
Berlin Serengeti
Radio Citizen
98
And Yet And Yet
Do Make Say Think
97
Tanto Tempo*
Bebel Gilberto
96
War of the Waking Phantoms
The High Dials
95
Trials of the Van Occupier
Midlake
94
In Ghost Colours
Cut Copy
93
Vekatimist
Grizzly Bear
91
Silent Alarm
Bloc Party
91
Len Parrot's Memorial Lift
Baxter Dury
90
The Visualz Anthology
Siah & Yeshua
89
Lift Your Skinny Fists like Antennas to Heaven
Godspeed You Black Emperor
88
Bitte Orca
Dirty Projectors
87
Deadringer
RJD2
86
Lust Lust Lust
Raveonettes
85
The Many Moods of Ben Benjamin , Vol. 1
Ben Benjamen
84
The Great Eastern*
The Delgados
83
Cease to Begin
Band of Horses
82
Phrenology
The Roots
81
The Stage Names
Okkervil River
80
From Here We Go Sublime
The Field
79
Franz Ferdinand
Franz Ferdinand
78
What We Must
Jaga Jazzist
77
Good News for People Who Like Bad News
Modest Mouse
76
Cibelle
Cibelle
75
Feels
Animal Collective
74
Close to Paradise
Patrick Watson
73
Finally We Are No One
Mum
72
Before the Dawn Heals Us
M83
71
Rings Around the World
Super Furry Animals
70
The Long Goodbye
The Essex Green
69
Poses
Rufus Wainwright
68
Joyful Rebellion
K-os
67
The Fast Rise and Fall of the South
The Kingsbury Manx
66
Back to Black
Amy Winehouse
65
I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning
Bright Eyes
64
Microcastle
Deerhunter
63
The Sophware Slump
Grandaddy
62
The Besnard Lakes Are the Dark Horse
The Besnard Lakes
61
The Eraser
Thom Yorke
60
Five Roses
Miracle Fortress
59
Andorra
Caribou
58
Walking With Thee
Clinic
57
Alligator
The National
56
One Bedroom
The Sea and Cake
55
Black Sheep Boy
Okkervil River
54
For Emma, For Ever Ago
Bon Iver
53
Parc Avenue
Plants & Animals
52
The Life Pursuit
Belle and Sebastian
51
Our Endless Numbered Days
Iron & Wine
50
Oh, Inverted World
The Shins
49
The Reminder
Feist
48
Fleet Foxes
Fleet Foxes
47
Z
My Morning Jacket
46
Person Pitch
Panda Bear
45
The City
Fembots
44
Post-War
M.Ward
43
Arular
M.I.A.
42
Vieux Farka Toure
Vieux Farka Toure
41
Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga
Spoon
40
Transatlanticism
Death Cab for Cutie
39
Yours, Mine & Ours
Pernice Brothers
38
Specialist in All Styles
Orchestra Baobob
37
Late Registration
Kanye West
36
The Glow Part 2
The Microphones
35
Neon Bible
Arcade Fire
34
Pushin' On
Quantic Soul Orchestra
33
And Then Nothing Turned Itself Inside Out
Yo La Tengo
32
Sao Paulo Confessions
Suba
31
Cast of Thousands
Elbow
30
Sea Change
Beck
29
Picaresque
The Decemberists
28
Bows + Arrows
The Walkmen
27
Veneer
Jose Gonzalez
26
Thirteen Tales of Urban Bohemia
The Dandy Warhols
25
Melody A.M.
Royksopp
24
Since I Left You
The Avalanches
23
Figure 8
Elliot Smith
22
Speakerboxx/The Love Below
Outkast
21
Simple Things
Zero 7
20
Set Yourself on Fire
Stars
19
Madvillainy
Madvillian
18
Return to Cookie Mountain
TV on the Radio
17
You Forgot it in People
Broken Social Scene
16
Antics
Interpol
15
The Electric Version
The New Pornographers
14
The Grey Album
Danger Mouse
13
Tourist
St. Germain
12
Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots
The Flaming Lips
11
In Rainbows
Radiohead
10
Waltz for Koop
Koop
9
Chutes Too Narrow
The Shins
8
Feast of Wire
Calexico
7
Is This It?
The Strokes
6
Fox Confessor Brings the Flood
Neko Case
5
Come On Feel the Illinoise
Sufjan Stevens
4
Hour of the Bewilderbeast
Badly Drawn Boy
3
Kid A
Radiohead
2
Funeral
Arcade Fire
1
Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
Wilco

*indicates those that were added after the list was posted and i realized i had somehow left them off the initial list

Great minds think alike, Mike. I've been reluctant to spend the time going back through my downloads and rating them, for the same reason: would it be worthwhile? Haven't had the time to sit down and go through all those downloads (have been a member for 5 years and w/ 90 downloads per month, there's a lot through which to sift) but may try to get to it sometime soon.

Hey Mike, no, I've never tried using the feedback function. Sill the new format seems to do a pretty good job of suggesting music, mostly old jazz in my case. It becomes a bit of a loop I get stuck in, where I download some or all of the five or six albums on the home page, end up using most of my monthlies, and so get recommended the same type of thing again. And there do seem to be a ridiculous number of old jazz albums coming out of the woodwork.

Have any of you emusic.com users spent the time to rate the various albums that you've downloaded using the tools that they provide? I think that the idea is that if you rate things consistently, the site will be better able to suggest new music that is in line with your tastes. I've never bothered to rank anything on the site, but I'm considering taking the time to do it retroactively, and I'm wondering how effective the system is.

I will have to revisit Rattle and Hum, based on Stuart's comments and Marc's continued promotion of its merits. I bought the album (okay, cassette...but it was the 80s and I did have high speed dubbing on my pitiful little home stereo) when it came out and I was 17 years old so perhaps, some 21 years on, and with different sensibilities, I may enjoy it a lot more now. Unfortunately, I no longer possess any equipment that can play cassettes. But I digress.

I'm really buying your GOTT (Go Over The Top) over JTS (Jump the Shark) thesis Marc. And I'm wondering if GOTT the key to a band's longevity? Is this just a fancy new phrase that equals plain old risk-taking?

Regardless, you're probably right in that, if U2 had simply re-released a Joshua-Tree-like followup in either 1988 or 1991, they would likely have been resigned to the dustbin of the 1980s or the casinos of the 21st century. I would argue that it was the second of the three albums you've identified--Achtung Baby--that was the represented the biggest shift and perhaps the most conscious shift towards both a different sound and a self-referential attitude to their role as a band and their place in the pop culture pantheon.

Released on November 19, 1991 (though the first single came out at least a month earlier), some two months after the seminal, arguably era-defining album by a certain band from Seattle, Achtung Baby was represented a big stylistic and musical shift for the band. While listening to previous records conjured up images of The Edge standing in a grassy field outside Dublin, wailing on his guitar and looking stoically in the distance, this album seemed to channel more of a futuristic urban dystopia, albeit with some brighter moments ("One", is far more hopeful than "The Fly"); in other words, a completely different atmosphere, albeit very different from the grunge sensibility that would soon envelop the pop scene. Perhaps it was the production. Or the newfound embrace of electronic elements. Regardless, this was a definite shift and very successful one for the band.

Agree, too, that most of their stuff from the past 10 years isn't very interesting. I liked "Vertigo" but everything else has generated little more than a yawn. Still, props given for a band that, 21 years plus on, doesn't evoke groans a la Jagger, Richards et al.

I must admit I have come around to liking Rattle & Hum , much more then I used to , ( Thanks to Marc 's persistence) I view it as a much more satisfying mid carreer regrouping , then say John Lennons Rock and Roll...I cant argue with the quality that came immediately after this for U2 as marc points out. Also, the idea of having studio and live tracks, is one I actually like, as it freshens the concept...The Last Waltz is another of the few examples of this, and both work.
Finally though I tend to be more an albums man, then a singles man, I have to admit to being completely captivated by this single from Goldfrapp which was a source of great comfort during my dark days battling those 2 months of headaches...album is not bad too, but this is the standout track.

I had no idea that "jumping the shark" had become such an acknowledged expression. Imagine my surprise to find that there are actually 18 ways to jump the shark!

Brian, i find it interesting that you refer to U2's shift as jumping the shark. I may agree with you that perhaps it was a legitimate shark jump but i rather see it as an insightful self awareness. No one can argue U2's phenomenal popular success, least alone the members of the band. I think that the three albums that followed Jtree were brilliant for their post modern acknowledgement of what the art /pop of U2 had become. The stadium show had become huge and rivalled those of the great dinosaur groups. Rattle and Hum, Achtung Baby and Zooropa played upon the absurdity of the fame that the band had achieved. The band redefined themselves with each album and, although they were much of the time over the top, (perhaps even over the shark), the music had to grow to the crescendo that the live act had become. Had the band not gone over the top, i would submit that the band might well have faded to the status of also ran, as so many 80's bands did! ...now, appearing at Casino Rama ...(fill in the blank)!

I think this refers back to recurring a conversation: what will we ALL be listening to in common in the future that is being produced now, or has been in the last decade? Could it be that U2 is the last Mega pop/rock group with any artistic merit that will achieve such success in our lifetime? (and i'm not suggesting that you sods are all listening to U2)


I think that U2 became an also ran after Zooropa. I'm glad they went over the top first! Their recent releases bore the hell out of me. ...funny for a band whose music i still listen to on a regular basis and never tire of.

Hey Marc, great to have you back in the fold, and to hear a dissenting voice on the live recording issue. And I agree with some of what you've said. Certainly when you and I were growing up in the seventies/early eighties, the live album was an absolute in the repertoire...often a substitute for a third release as new-ish bands went through rehab after two years of coke-fueled touring. Maybe I'm generalizing a bit there. I don't share your love of Rattle and Hum ( I would almost say that's when U2 jumped the shark), though I do like a couple of the songs

Thanks for all of your thoughts on cool recent releases. Ahem. Adding to the huge list we're building together, I would mention the new Lou Barlow is really nice if not essential, and the Most Serene Republic's is really good.

You know it's been too long since your last post when you can't remember your sign-in password!

I think that the live album is an essential part of pop/rock. It's not for every artist, granted, but nor is live performance if you ask me. I agree that the live album has largely been supplanted by YouTube and illicit shared recording and would also agree that artists these days don't stick around for long enough or aren't strong enough to develop significant oeuvres which might warrant a live retrospective of a career.

I do think that the live recordings, whether they be in an album or not, are indispensable in understanding some of the great artists. Think of the significance of Woodstock or Monetary and the importance of the live recording to our understanding of the times. Where would we be without the oodles of live Hendrix tracks? I guess it could be argued that Hendrix was actually a jazz musician and that for the sake of the argument we have to leave him out. ...such a short life and so few got to hear his magic live ...you gonna take that away from the rest of us?

I think most would agree that the capturing of many of these moments is essential in recording the spirit of a time and if it ends up in the Library of Congress where some scholar is gonna dig it up in 50 years ...well that don't cut it with me, you gotta lay down the lacquer.

The live recording or album affords an artist another medium to relate an idea. There is a strong tradition of cover tunes on live albums ...significant renditions of standards, similar to the jazz tradition, that would not otherwise make it to a larger audience. The medium allows for that expression without getting all pretentious and getting into the studio and, these days, spending a week getting the track down so it is just right. Sometimes the quick and dirty does the trick.

I can say that i don't spend a lot of time listening to live albums, but, one that gets a lot of circulation is Rattle n' Hum. Now, granted, it's not entirely a live album. It contains original material, but what it does so remarkably is convey the sense of being on the road. The endless shows and a sort of solitude, the exhilaration, the discovery, the stress, the inspiration, the energy. I know a lot of people right off the album but they got it all wrong. They are shallow individuals!

Fascinating how we really know some artists by their live work, Jackson Browne, Cheap Trick and Peter Frampton to name a few that were previously mentioned.

Artist such as Nirvana have let us see another side of them when they perform an album like Unplugged. ...that's cool. Cockburn, Lou Reed, Neil Young all have live music that i feel has added to our understanding of the artist. The list goes on but everyone knows i'm not good with lists.

I have to admit that i don't listen to my copy of Springsteen's 75-85 very often, but i'm glad that i will be able to drop the needle on it 30 years from now and remember MY summer of love.

Might i go so far out on a limb as to say that the quality of live music has declined? I'm not sure i believe it myself, but, are musicians really all that competent with their instruments and their song writing skills these days? Why are they spending a half year in the studio to produce an album that it might have taken a day or a week to produce in the good old days? ...and the old classics endure while many of us might agree, there is much less that endures in this day and age. I don't wanna come off sounding like an old fart, but, are pop musicians these days relying too much on production and engineering?

...i listen to a band like the Arcade Fire (been around long enough to reflect on) and i would say not, i still love the music, i loved the show i saw at the Danforth Music Hall, i heard a podcast of a live show from New York, it was exciting, do i need to hear it again? No.

So ...the live recording of Paranoid Android by Brad Mehldau on Live from Tokyo ...i love it, but that's Jazz for ya!

Hey boys, sorry I missed out on the live recordings discussion, though I think you covered off most of my thoughts. If anything I thought the convo could have been directed towards other genre live recordings - jazz of course springs to mind, where live recordings are generally better thought of. And the question would be, why is that? Some of my most joyous, cathartic moments have been at live rock shows, generally small clubs. And yet by and large the recordings can't translate the experience. And while I adore jazz in all of its forms and formats, something about studio jazz is less different than live jazz. ie live jazz works better as a record. Think of Bill Evans live at the Village Vanguard (or Coltrane, or Rollins etc). Jazz is generally less adorned of course, so the studio is less important, but wouldn't that be true as well of rock and roll, punk, where the studio can potentially ruin the energy and spontaneity?

On another subject - any recent pop/rock discoveries? emusic or otherwise. I'm very fond of a record by The Leisure Society, really gorgeous chamber pop with a vocal emphasis. To my ear quite unique sounding within the (perhaps) over-developed genre.

Yeah, I've never understood the point of live dvds. Think Paul Rudd's character captures my feelings in his comments about Michael McDonald playing all day in "40 Year Old Virgin":

To your point about Jagger singing "Start Me Up", I completely agree. If a band records a live album that is essentially a greatest hits package played identically to the studio renditions, I have no interest in it. What I really like are songs whose live recordings exceed their original studio versions. For example, the version of "Rhiannon" on Fleetwood Mac live or the version of "Astronomy" on Some Enchanted Evening are both much better than the originals. In other cases, a song can be completely reinterpreted with great effect - such as Springsteen's take of Jungleland on his live box set. Finally, I enjoy it when artists show their personalities with entertaining banter between songs as Tom Waits does in "Big Time". But I think its true that live albums are no longer as relevant as they once were. I guess they've been supplanted by concert DVDs to some extent. But for some reason I have no real interest in collecting those. I like to watch them once, but don't feel compelled to watch them repeatedly, unlike the live albums that I wore out in my youth.