I had no idea that "jumping the shark" had become such an acknowledged expression. Imagine my surprise to find that there are actually 18 ways to jump the shark!

Brian, i find it interesting that you refer to U2's shift as jumping the shark. I may agree with you that perhaps it was a legitimate shark jump but i rather see it as an insightful self awareness. No one can argue U2's phenomenal popular success, least alone the members of the band. I think that the three albums that followed Jtree were brilliant for their post modern acknowledgement of what the art /pop of U2 had become. The stadium show had become huge and rivalled those of the great dinosaur groups. Rattle and Hum, Achtung Baby and Zooropa played upon the absurdity of the fame that the band had achieved. The band redefined themselves with each album and, although they were much of the time over the top, (perhaps even over the shark), the music had to grow to the crescendo that the live act had become. Had the band not gone over the top, i would submit that the band might well have faded to the status of also ran, as so many 80's bands did! ...now, appearing at Casino Rama ...(fill in the blank)!

I think this refers back to recurring a conversation: what will we ALL be listening to in common in the future that is being produced now, or has been in the last decade? Could it be that U2 is the last Mega pop/rock group with any artistic merit that will achieve such success in our lifetime? (and i'm not suggesting that you sods are all listening to U2)


I think that U2 became an also ran after Zooropa. I'm glad they went over the top first! Their recent releases bore the hell out of me. ...funny for a band whose music i still listen to on a regular basis and never tire of.

Hey Marc, great to have you back in the fold, and to hear a dissenting voice on the live recording issue. And I agree with some of what you've said. Certainly when you and I were growing up in the seventies/early eighties, the live album was an absolute in the repertoire...often a substitute for a third release as new-ish bands went through rehab after two years of coke-fueled touring. Maybe I'm generalizing a bit there. I don't share your love of Rattle and Hum ( I would almost say that's when U2 jumped the shark), though I do like a couple of the songs

Thanks for all of your thoughts on cool recent releases. Ahem. Adding to the huge list we're building together, I would mention the new Lou Barlow is really nice if not essential, and the Most Serene Republic's is really good.

You know it's been too long since your last post when you can't remember your sign-in password!

I think that the live album is an essential part of pop/rock. It's not for every artist, granted, but nor is live performance if you ask me. I agree that the live album has largely been supplanted by YouTube and illicit shared recording and would also agree that artists these days don't stick around for long enough or aren't strong enough to develop significant oeuvres which might warrant a live retrospective of a career.

I do think that the live recordings, whether they be in an album or not, are indispensable in understanding some of the great artists. Think of the significance of Woodstock or Monetary and the importance of the live recording to our understanding of the times. Where would we be without the oodles of live Hendrix tracks? I guess it could be argued that Hendrix was actually a jazz musician and that for the sake of the argument we have to leave him out. ...such a short life and so few got to hear his magic live ...you gonna take that away from the rest of us?

I think most would agree that the capturing of many of these moments is essential in recording the spirit of a time and if it ends up in the Library of Congress where some scholar is gonna dig it up in 50 years ...well that don't cut it with me, you gotta lay down the lacquer.

The live recording or album affords an artist another medium to relate an idea. There is a strong tradition of cover tunes on live albums ...significant renditions of standards, similar to the jazz tradition, that would not otherwise make it to a larger audience. The medium allows for that expression without getting all pretentious and getting into the studio and, these days, spending a week getting the track down so it is just right. Sometimes the quick and dirty does the trick.

I can say that i don't spend a lot of time listening to live albums, but, one that gets a lot of circulation is Rattle n' Hum. Now, granted, it's not entirely a live album. It contains original material, but what it does so remarkably is convey the sense of being on the road. The endless shows and a sort of solitude, the exhilaration, the discovery, the stress, the inspiration, the energy. I know a lot of people right off the album but they got it all wrong. They are shallow individuals!

Fascinating how we really know some artists by their live work, Jackson Browne, Cheap Trick and Peter Frampton to name a few that were previously mentioned.

Artist such as Nirvana have let us see another side of them when they perform an album like Unplugged. ...that's cool. Cockburn, Lou Reed, Neil Young all have live music that i feel has added to our understanding of the artist. The list goes on but everyone knows i'm not good with lists.

I have to admit that i don't listen to my copy of Springsteen's 75-85 very often, but i'm glad that i will be able to drop the needle on it 30 years from now and remember MY summer of love.

Might i go so far out on a limb as to say that the quality of live music has declined? I'm not sure i believe it myself, but, are musicians really all that competent with their instruments and their song writing skills these days? Why are they spending a half year in the studio to produce an album that it might have taken a day or a week to produce in the good old days? ...and the old classics endure while many of us might agree, there is much less that endures in this day and age. I don't wanna come off sounding like an old fart, but, are pop musicians these days relying too much on production and engineering?

...i listen to a band like the Arcade Fire (been around long enough to reflect on) and i would say not, i still love the music, i loved the show i saw at the Danforth Music Hall, i heard a podcast of a live show from New York, it was exciting, do i need to hear it again? No.

So ...the live recording of Paranoid Android by Brad Mehldau on Live from Tokyo ...i love it, but that's Jazz for ya!

Hey boys, sorry I missed out on the live recordings discussion, though I think you covered off most of my thoughts. If anything I thought the convo could have been directed towards other genre live recordings - jazz of course springs to mind, where live recordings are generally better thought of. And the question would be, why is that? Some of my most joyous, cathartic moments have been at live rock shows, generally small clubs. And yet by and large the recordings can't translate the experience. And while I adore jazz in all of its forms and formats, something about studio jazz is less different than live jazz. ie live jazz works better as a record. Think of Bill Evans live at the Village Vanguard (or Coltrane, or Rollins etc). Jazz is generally less adorned of course, so the studio is less important, but wouldn't that be true as well of rock and roll, punk, where the studio can potentially ruin the energy and spontaneity?

On another subject - any recent pop/rock discoveries? emusic or otherwise. I'm very fond of a record by The Leisure Society, really gorgeous chamber pop with a vocal emphasis. To my ear quite unique sounding within the (perhaps) over-developed genre.

Yeah, I've never understood the point of live dvds. Think Paul Rudd's character captures my feelings in his comments about Michael McDonald playing all day in "40 Year Old Virgin":

To your point about Jagger singing "Start Me Up", I completely agree. If a band records a live album that is essentially a greatest hits package played identically to the studio renditions, I have no interest in it. What I really like are songs whose live recordings exceed their original studio versions. For example, the version of "Rhiannon" on Fleetwood Mac live or the version of "Astronomy" on Some Enchanted Evening are both much better than the originals. In other cases, a song can be completely reinterpreted with great effect - such as Springsteen's take of Jungleland on his live box set. Finally, I enjoy it when artists show their personalities with entertaining banter between songs as Tom Waits does in "Big Time". But I think its true that live albums are no longer as relevant as they once were. I guess they've been supplanted by concert DVDs to some extent. But for some reason I have no real interest in collecting those. I like to watch them once, but don't feel compelled to watch them repeatedly, unlike the live albums that I wore out in my youth.

Tenuous segues are far preferable to completely ignoring someone's last post and starting a topic afresh in a manner that suggests the poster was barely able to refrain from starting with, "ANYWAY...". So I applaud the initiative, Mike!

As for the live album, like Derek, I don't I own very many. I prefer the studio or 'finished' product, though I recognize that this may well be a contentious statement. Some might argue that a song isn't ever finished, and that years of performance can add layers of nuance or complexity to a song or strip it down into more basic elements that come across as organic, cleaner, fresher... I'm willing to entertain that argument if directed to some examples but most of the live performances I've experienced in recorded version--watching on television or listening to on a stereo--are usually either pale imitations of the recorded versions (think Mick Jagger singing 'Start Me Up' on stage anytime over the past 25 years) or full of improvisational flourishes (Sting peppring a rendition 'Roxanne' with jazz scat, something I witnessed on television over 20 years ago but still makes me shudder to this day) that irritate more than improve.

Whenever I'm sitting around and listing albums with friends and a live album is mentioned, it is usually pointed out, rather quickly that the album is 'just' a live album, an almost knee-jerk reaction to qualify that suggests, to me, that on some level, we don't believe the live album counts towards an artists' legacy.

It is interesting that most of those albums you list are from the 1970s. I started buying music around the end of that decade and I guess the music I was into in the early to mid 80s didn't translate all that well to live performance (heavy synth, layered guitar, tortured vocals). While this may well be why I don't own as many, I do get the sense, from trolling through different websites, that there's a bit of a consensus that the live album reached its zenith in that decade. Did the 80s kill the live album?

To Derek's point that the relative ease with which we can find and play a seemingly infinite number of live performances may spell the end of the live album for good. But I'm guessing that there will always be completists who will want to own (by which I mean, have in their possession rather than bought) every possible recorded version of a band's output, even if these can be retrieved at any time on a handheld device within seconds. Those of you who seek out torrents can attest to the size and scope of some of the 'complete' collections of a band you may have assumed only released a handful of albums. Not sure if this means record companies will continue to release live albums but then again, there may not be such a thing as a record company in the near future.

I probably own somewhere around 2500 non-jazz or classical recordings and I can count on both hands the number of live albums in that collection. For me at least live recordings are simply not an integral part of an artists body of work.

The few times that I have been inspired to seek out a live album has usually been the result of witnessing a truly great live performance by the artist in question. I remember distinctly in the summer of 1982 attending the Police Picnic at Exhibition Stadium and being totally floored by the Talking Heads large ensemble performance and immediately after the show heading up Yonge Street with some buddies to purchase the double live album "The Name of This Band is Talking Heads" at Sam the Record Man. Probably one of my two favourite live albums. The other being Peter Gabriel's "Plays Live", the purchase again was spurred by seeing him twice at the Gardens and putting on brilliant performances.

A few of the other live albums I own by the Smiths and the Jam for example barely register for me in the band's catalogue.

Back in the day when attending 3 or 4 shows in a given month wasn't unusual I should have been much more receptive to seeking out a live album but somehow failed to end up with the more than 10 or so that I have. Not really sure why that is but these days when I am lucky to get out to 1 or 2 shows a year the likelihood of me rushing out to find a live performance of any act is much slimmer. Even someone I adore like Neko Case who happens to have all of her studio releases sitting in my cd rack is sadly absent her 2004 "Tigers Have Spoken" live album.

I notice Mike that most of the live albums you've listed are 30-40 years old and by fairly well established artists. Is there some sort of minimum album output that a band should reach before anyone feels it necessary to hear them recorded live? In this day of shortened band lifespans are we likely to see many more "live" albums especially given that you can dial up almost any band you care to mention and find a live performance somewhere on the internet.

And one more point re recorded live performances what is the impetus behind this sudden reuniting of aged musicians to peform live an entire so called classic album. Were bands doing this in the 70s, 80s and 90s. If so I don't recall.

This is a tenuous segue, but Kyle's opera post dealt with a live performance (and, as an aside, I also found the review amusing. It must be extraordinarily frustrating to have one's stellar vocal performance in an opera completely overshadowed by innovative but critically skewered staging and direction) and I have been thinking about live performances lately. It is generally true of independent acts that they come across better live than in the studio. But most successful bands overcome this issue, and generate studio albums that define them. Some bands, however, seem to be definitively captured by live recordings. A few examples culled from my own collection are:
- Greatest Stories Live by Harry Chapin
- Cheap Trick Live at Budakahn
- The Last Waltz by the Band
- Frampton Comes Alive
- Neil Diamond's Hot August Night
- An Evening with John Denver
- Ted Nugent's Double Live Gonzo

Several other live albums rate among my personal favorites for certain performers, although I can't claim that these are generally considered "definitive":
- Stop Making Sense by the Talking Heads
- Bruce Springsteen Live 1975-1985
- Big Time by Tom Waits
- Neil Young - Live Rust
- Fleetwood Mac Live
- Some Enchanted Evening by Blue Oyster Cult
- Rheostatics - Double Live
- Hiatt Comes Alive at Budakahn by John Hiatt& the Guilty Dogs
- Queen Live Killers

The question for the group is - what are your thoughts about live recordings vs. studio recordings? Are they significant elements of an artist's body of work? Or are they just commercial endeavors that don't fundamentally impact a given artist's importance or legacy.

Know we don't post often on Opera and this review is less about the quality of the vocal performances than it is about the stage direction but I found it highly entertaining nonetheless.

I find myself curiously uninterested in hearing the new Beatles tracks. They were my favorite band for the longest time - I suppose they still are, but the music has become too familiar to engender any excitement or thrill anymore. Hearing the songs with modern technology to enhance the sound has only a mild academic interest for me. I guess I'm neither an audiophile or a collector at heart.

A great suggestion re: your birthday gift, Bri. An even better suggestion, I think, would be this. A far more managable $5 w/ shipping. Whadda you think guys?

Well I'm pretty interested to hear the Beatles music, given all the comments I've heard about it coming to life etc. It's probably the pop music I know best, listened to the most, etc, so the idea of it being refreshed is intriguing. The cost, not as intriguing. Of course, it is my birthday on Monday. It would only be $50 a CD club member or so. And I'd be willing to share them (eventually) .

Also, initial digital album thoughts: yawn! A bunch of videos and art that I can look at on my pc/mac? Isn't that called a (free) website? Hardly seems worth the 40% markup at this point. Hope to be proven wrong by a future kickass version but for now, I'll save my ducats.

I think it would be worthwhile, and certainly cathartic, to itemize all the reasons I despise Dave Matthews but let's leave as a rhetorical for now.

As for the Fab 4's new digitalized remastered mono and stereo versions, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be buying/downgrading with the intention of restoring their collection to its original purity(mono)/upgrading with the benefit of hearing the sweat dripping down george harrison's back (stereo) with this new set. I have most if not all the Beatles albums I think I want or need already (Help, Rubber Soul, Revolver, Magical, Sgt. Peppers, White, Abbey, Let it Be) so I'm not sure why I'm supposed to shell out another $190 or $260 . Or should I join the legions of 21st century gamers? Wondering if someone can explain the merits to me. Otherwise, I'm going to put all my disposable cash into a robotic floorvac.

Ha! What is it about Dave Mathews that is so bloody annoying? Please treat that question as rhetorical.

Any excitement about this release? I'm definitely interested in hearing them.

Now that it has been launched, I'm not sure if you'll find these new digital lps compelling but the product demo makes me wonder if there's an application I can download that will allow me to never have to hear a Dave Matthews song.

How to pick your new favourite indie band.

fellow beasts,

the etymology/ontogenesis of metabeats

1) since this is a place where we think about how we think about music, thought that the word 'meta' fit, at least in terms of its definition as an abstraction from another concept. thus metabeats is sharing how we felt (feeling the feeling, therefore meta) about a particular piece of music (beats)

2) it sounds cool

the other option would have been to just give it a simple name, like 'Barry'. but i thought this would be too cute by half.

as for stuart's suggestion that the video may distract from the song, it's a valid point but allow me to add this twist: i rarely watch the video itself.

once i find the song on youtube, i'll alt-tab over to another application and continuing doing something else while enjoying the song. youtube is just an easier place to find the song and provide a link or embed a track than any other site. granted, when i search for a song, i do try to find the best video or one that appears to be the 'official' video, so on some level, i must assume that you want to watch it, even if i don't. or perhaps i just want the option of alt-tabbing back to watch, should it strike my fancy. i'll spare you any further self-exploration as this is meta-enough for today.

as we head into the long weekend, though, any music that you're planning on playing?

Oops, OK I am editing that one! Simply for the sake of clarity (not out of any sense of embarrassment...), and thereby rendering your comment incomprehensible.

I've always assumed we were using definition 4b: "Derived from by a loss of water".

And to your point, Stuart - I've never liked the whole idea of music videos. Sure there have been some entertaining ones over the years, but I do find them to be generally a distraction from the music. The only ones I consistently like are those that simply show the band playing the song.

By the way - very nice little Freudian slip there, Brian.

Metabeast is awesome. It's actually the way I think of myself. Particularly the meta part. The meaning of which, incidentally, I debated with my friend Steve Ketola the other day. He very confidently stated that it meant "above" in Greek. I had thought it more like "beside" or "beyond". In fact, looking at the definition on m-w, it looks like like it is one of the more complex (and flexible) prefixes around. Which leaves me with the question, what did each of you think we've been meaning by Metabeats all these years?

Another nomination from me, a great track from a record that perhaps didn't get the kudos it deserved because the man in question made the poor career move of stabbing himself in the chest before releasing it. I say that in jest but actually am (or certainly was) v. saddened by it. From a Basement might be my favourite record of his.

apologies for the spelling this time , see below, but I think i prefer the name metabeast, what do you "louts" think. Clearly there is a greater chance girls will stumble onto the site with that name ......

Ivebeen checking out the picks from you lout from the last few weeks shown on metabeast and it occurs to me that seeing a new track for the first time as a youtube video is quite different from only hearing the audio. Not sure this is a good thing as it is a distraction from the music itself....
ok so I should just get over this, but still.....

In the spirit of Brian , I will now nominate a lesser known act that I think ranks up there.
Cody Chestnut- the headphone masterpiece This track is typical of about 1/4 of the album.. it ranges from R&B like( the artist formerly known as)Prince to hip hop with the lyrics ranging from love songs to very humourous takes on relationships to the very profane....the range is great. Derek will know one track that is on the soundtrack to You me and Everyone we know by Miranda July which would make my top 10 movies of the decade, but I digress ..Definately the cd is one of my top R&B / rap type albums....

Continuing with the endless saga/slow steady stream of decade faves, two more gem tracks for me are:

The Streets - Well Be In

Sweet little story, nice looped beat, and especially love the invocation of a documentary observation about human mating cues in the chorus.



Midlake - Roscoe

Everything I like about old America and Fleetwood Mac albums in one song.

not surprising....tramps like bruce...

sorry brian, i checked with bruce and he is too busy to accomdate us...

When i first looked through that list I thought it looked like a pretentious self laudatory music scholar walk through critically acclaimed americanna music ...until i realised that this is exactly the sort of music that i love and listen too.....

Pretty great list. I note the regular inclusion of the fave band of my youth The Byrds. Bruce and I should chat over a beer sometime. Stuart, maybe he could come out to a CD club?

On a new topic - a friend of mine sent me a link to an interesting list of songs. These are songs that Bruce Springsteen hand selected as the "walk-in" music for his latest concert tour. It's a list of 250 or so songs covering a large number of different rock, folk and blues artists. It includes lots of songs that I know, and more enticingly, lots of songs that I don't.

Since you ask, Brian:

Yes, my brother did give me KoB many years ago, and no, I didn't like it very much. At the risk of incurring the derision of all of my fellow metaBeaters, I will admit that I still don't find it compelling. I did read the article, and it was interesting - I didn't know anything about the history of jazz improvisation, and the inflection point that Miles and the boys caused, or at least exemplified with this record. But that is the whole problem with jazz from my perspective – to me it's an intellectual exercise rather than an emotional response. I can't really enjoy a solo just because I know that it represents a particularly clever application of a mixolydian mode. I find that I can't really connect with a piece of music if it is too freely structured. I don't want every song to have a “verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus” structure, but I have difficulty with the “establish a loose theme - wander off and jam as the mood takes you - briefly revisit the theme” approach. It all starts sounding the same to me. Part of the issue is that I'm not a huge fan of instrumental music to begin with. I don't like really long extended jams in rock music either. Nonetheless, having read the article, I did give KoB another listen to see if my newly enhanced knowledge of the history of jazz would help make me a convert. It didn't.

Mo' KoB. Plus, I saw an ad for this book in the Sunday paper. Perhaps something you could gift to Mr. Gaines, Bri.

Thanks Kyle. Kind of Blue, and the theory behind it, is something I've always found fascinating. It's not completely removed from the (generally much reviled) Schoenberg twelve-tone system of composition. I have a bunch of George Russell records, and while they are more difficult listens than KoB (almost all jazz is) they are very interesting, and come alive with careful listens. Honestly (it's a bit of an illness of mine) I get excited just reading about that music. Not excited excited, you know....just...never mind.

Mike, not to put you on the spot, but (and I appreciate that you are not a jazz fan) I recall you many years ago describing KoB as "mindless jamming", when your brother Brian foisted it upon you. Have you warmed up to it at all over the years? If no, will this article convince you to give 'er another try? (I think I know the answer to that one....:) )

Your Monday morning read: Kind of Blue.

That was so disappointing when you opened up the album, expecting to find some lyrics or pictures on the inner sleeve, and ended up with a white sleeve with clear plastic middle. Made me kind of hate the artist/band just a teensy little bit. I always used to like to buy those music mags with song lyrics so maybe I was just fixated on knowing what the artists were singing about.

You raise a good point about digital content and the fact that most of what would likely be compelling in a digital album--artist info, artwork, videos--is already widely available at the click of a mouse or the tap of a touch pad on a smart phone. Will be interesting to see what they come up with.

As for your emusic frustrations, Bri, I hear you. Emusic has been bad about surreptiously dropping previously downloaded stuff or even pretending they never offered them in the first place. This happened recently with the Dirty Projectors album, which i grabbed in early July but is now 'No longer available in my country (Canada)'. With the first Ladytron and Jose Gonzales albums, they don't even acknowledge that they ever sold them to me. Almost makes me want to cancel the service until I remember that I'm still getting approximately 7 albums per month from them for an average of $3 a pop.

I'll be surprised if the new digital album concept takes off. While it is true that downloading a track or an album offers less tactile pleasure than the old vinyl records did, the on-line experience is actually much richer and deeper. As I listen to a newly-downloaded album, I can easily access the band's bio, reviews of this and all previous releases, song lyrics, album artwork and anything else that is posted on the web. Any package that they put together is going to be a subset of all of that - probably nicely formatted and heavy on graphics, but all of that content will be posted and available for viewing very rapidly. Unless they find ways to protect it all, which will require cumbersome and irritating security devices that will raise the ire of music fans yet again.

I do remember the vinyl album experience fondly though. Whenever I bought a new record, there was always that moment of anticipation - would the inner sleeve be full of lyrics, photos and other interesting bits - or would it be a disappointing plain anti-static sleeve?

Well, admittedly, it's just possible that I got a bit edgy when Stu suggested I had to opine on why his choices weren't on my list.

Kyle, it's early, but I fear you have an insurmountable lead in the Wittiest Blogger Award again this year. Nice job on the levity.

Re digi albums, I'm much less troubled by it then I am by digi books...it's a far more obvious fit, for one. In my case, I'm about 95% digital these days anyway, and wouldn't know at this point whether I was buying "real" releases or not. In terms of rights, that's a whole different issue. For example, emusic has started eliminating some music that I purchased from the site a couple of years ago, so that if I haven't stored them all permanently (mea culpa), I can't go and download them again for free....which is one of the attractive features of the site. I have yet to figure out why they've eliminated the music, perhaps a break with the label in question.

OK, that's not really a rights issue, it's just annoying.

On another non-list related topic, but one I think I referenced a few weeks ago, what do you think about the idea of a digital album? Compelling or not really worth the extra dosh if you can't really touch or hold it in the same way as a real album or cd?

My concern, which extends to ebooks--especially in light of the recent controversy of the Amazon Kindle deleting content it no longer thinks you should have--is less about the attractiveness of the product offering than about the issue of who actually 'owns' the music once it has been bought. In the past, this has always been the consumer, more or less. There have always been copyright restrictions but no retailer has ever walked into my house and grabbed an album, claiming that I no longer owned it. Digital downloads make this intrusion possible. Just wondering if we're heading in that direction.

stuart, stop posting choices that don't speak to brian! though i must say, i'm simultaneously awed and disappointed by your blow the whole wad in one shebang (self-referential aside question: is this a mixed metaphor?) approach. impressed that you got all this out ahead of others, so you don't come across as a copycat later on but also wondering how you're going to make future posts relevant.

advance warning: there's a good chance radiohead and arcade fire will appear on my list as well, though i'll save their inclusion and rankings until the very end to limit the eye-rolling to one read.

also, i just googled eastern armenian mutes and stuart's post is the number one result. should it strike the fancy of any other human being on the planet to string these three words together and type them into a search engine, they will be brought to our website. well done, mr. watson.

Yes yes yess!!!

well the arcade fire will be top 5 , but I am actually choosing the chick corea box set of his IS Sessions sung by eastern armenian mutes.....including alternate versions....

So your top two favourites of the decade are Arcade Fire and Radiohead. Fascinating choices.

thought I had better put some noughts albums out there since you are all picking my favorites as it is...I am pretty focused on the albums rather then songs as generally that matters more to me....
no question to some previousl;y mentioned albums , namely
- band of Horses -debut album
-Beck -Sea Changes
-badly Drawn boy - -debut album
Cant see how Arcade fires debut isnt included , I think any metabeats members not selecting this (as has been threatened) , willl have to have a lengthy reason as to why not...
Another obvious one that will be on mine and Im sure many of yours is Wilcos yankeee foxtrot, which still stands as the album most loved that took the longest to get, but proved the worth of perservearance with a difficult album
a couple less of obvious would be the Strokes ( wait for it brian) second album, ( he really does have to get over this) because few albums make me smile from start to finish and that one still does it every time for me.
Also Sigour Rios Takk , I thing a superior album to the debut and it just keeps gettign better every listen.. Intense, intense stuff only equalled in that department by .....radiohead...Rainbows may in fact be my favcorite album of the last 10 years , and I think i have to admit I like it better then ok computer which was my favoritwe album from the last decade... Ok computer is more uni-dimensional in its sound whereas rainbows has more of a range of depth to the songs and though still bleak there is a sense of redemption in some of the songs that contrasts the despair making the sound richer and more apt to repeated listenings without running the risk of killing yourself...
more later....

I think among my cohort, by the time "Some Kind of Wonderful" came out, the Hughes' clash of the classes narrative was starting to feel a bit played out, with the director having mined the territory extensively already in both "Pretty in Pink" and "The Breakfast Club". Think "Feris..." stands out as his best, and for me, "Sixteen Candles" the most fun, with a soundtrack to perhaps rival "Pretty". I'm surprised you didn't nominate this track over Flesh For Lulu, Deeman. Perhaps it's because you never got to enjoy a birthday pizza dinner while sitting with your hunky beau on a table.

Agree with you on Band of Horses...great debut disc and great followup as well. Odd that they didn't select 'Funeral', though they do give it some props, suitably describing it as anthemic, in the disc narrative.

Onto a few other tracks from the 00s...allow me to nominate:

"Fortress" - Pinback

Slightly laconic verses give way to a slightly more strident chorus, and the song steadily to build to a knee-clapping dance number, as a warm rhythmic bass offers a steady backdrop groove. No idea what the song is supposed to be about but it's catchy and very danceable.

Another nominee is "Master of None" by Beach House. This is a kind of cool, drone-y number, with a detached female voice floating over space-age organ and drum music...think a slightly more stripped down Stereolab (sans distortion, francais).

Hey Kyle as a big fan of OMD and Simple Minds pre their Hughsian fame I'd rather not listen to "If You Leave" and most especially "Don't You Forget About Me" ever again. Now I'll have that damn song in my head for days.

Loved the man's movies and his soundtracks had many great tracks. If I had to pick one movie and one song I'd go with "Some Kind of Wonderful" (produced by Hughes) and "I go crazy" by Flesh for Lulu. I suppose his movies were aimed at your generation (13-19? at the time) but I saw most of them in the theatre and looking up most of the main players I see that they are all slightly older or marginally younger than the rest of the old farts who post on this blog.

Back to the best of the noughties for a moment. You could do a lot worse for the best songs of the decade than 3 tracks from one of my faves from the last 10 years. Band of Horses debut album with the fairly obvious choices "Funeral", "The Great Salt Lake" and the less obvious "Wicked Gil". I see on allmusic that none of these songs receives the coveted tick mark. Do they use a random number generator to make these selections? You'd have to be comatose to not select "Funeral" as a standout at the very least.

As the metabeats poster whose generational affiliation makes him most affected by this news, allow me to suggest this song as the 4-minute most embodiment of not only the director's oeuvre, but also arguably of the decade itself, pop-culture wise.

Stuart: thanks for your latest pic, which will soon become my new desktop wallpaper. also, we asked for your top 100 albums so 10 isn't going to cut it.
Derek: think the last show I was was Plants & Animals at the Horseshoe last December. Pretty sad that I'm now living my concert going experiences vicariously through my father-in-law, who caught the Decemberists show at Kool Haus on Sunday, and will likely tell me about it this weekend. As for upcoming shows, couldn't help but notice that Likke Li is playing this Sunday night down at the former Docks, now Sound Academy down off of Cherry St. but the tix seem a little steep at $26.
Brian and Mike: these days, i'm usually good for 3-4 albums tops for any band or artist. at some point, even if the songs are good, i'm probably going to lose interest if the sound doesn't evolve or change in any way. CCR is an example of a band where, 5 or 6 songs into a listen, I'm about ready for something else....pretty much every one of their songs is a re-working of 'Down on the Corner'...great song but still ....for a more recent example of 'okay i get it' 5 songs in, see Sunset Rubdown.

Apropos of nothing department: Broken Social Scene covering, "Love Will Tear Us Apart"

I for one am glad to see the back of you, you eejit. And lay a hand on me and I'll get my big brother to kick your megalomaniacal ass.

Now that we've seen the last of Stuart "Whipper" Watson have any of the rest of you seen any live shows over the summer?, in 2009?, since you left university? I haven't seen a thing and since I still have 3 weeks left on my vacation would be up for seeing almost anything. Wouldn't even rule out a gig at the Zaphod.

....and thus it was that he was cast out, shunned forever for he had no sense of blog decorum.....and they said unto him will come a curse, and no longer will we write upon this blogsite for he hath forsaken goodness.....no more we say, be gone..... banished...for he is unworthy of our laughter.....and so it was to be.....

I thought I should drop a picture of myself in here so Mike knows what he is up against...

looking at that link Kyle on the best of 2009 so far I have to say either a) I am getting too old ( highly unlikely) or b) that list is simply the top most written about bands who are really shiit..( ok neko excleded) ...I dunno , but I have listened to a lot of them over the course of this year and none of them rings my bell much....on another note Mike I agree with you that as long as the songs are great I am fine with not reinventing a bands sound... CCR a great example, hundreds more we can name ( although referring to Wilco with the quote " I dont dislike them" is a luttle off the scale in my books and I really want to kick your ass but unfornately I have broken my collarbone so I will get Brian to do the honours ....you have not met me Mike but i am 200lbs of sheer muscle 6'7" tall so you are one lucky boy)
Finally I have to say I originally thought a top 10 list of the noughts woyld be extremely difficult but I have pretty well nailed 9 of the 10 easily by simply applying the following criteria
- must truly seriously love 90% of the album
-must listen to it still this year and still love it to death
its amazing how few albums fit this category... there are another 20 or so where I love 4 of 5 songs (half the album) but to get it to loving almost every song is a tough category for me...

Depends on the band, the sound, and the song of course, but I would posit that there are very few examples in pop music of bands who don't evolve (or change radically) over the mid-long term and still maintain their popularity or relevance - no comment on integrity mind you. Hey sounds like a blog question. Thanks for the porn Mike, that may be an all-time low clip.

I must take issue with the recent bout of criticisms that center around the sameness of a band's sound. If a band releases an album full of great songs, I do not believe that they must then change their sound in some fundamental way. Another album full of great songs that are consistent with the previous batch suits me fine. The important question is whether the songs are as strong or not. For example, CCR put out album after album of songs that did not range too far stylistically with consistently high quality songwriting. I don't see that as a problem.

I've never been a huge Wilco fan (I don't dislike them, but neither do I understand the level of critical acclaim that they have achieved), but I would suggest that the quality of the songwriting and performance on the recent album is a much more relevant question than the degree of departure from the previous albums.

And now for the porn link - this being a music blog, it's actually a porn music link. Enjoy!

Another topic for deep discussion: Is this band name more obnoxious than the use of an umlaut in heavy metal nomenclature? Saw it listed for sale on emusic and thought some of the clips intriguing in a just-watched-Blowup-again-recently-so-hankering-for-60s-psychedelia-kind of way but the spelling struck me as uber pretentious (irony intended).

There's a little more going on, instrumentally, on Lost Channels. The guitars are now approaching an uptempo Skydiggers meets America sound. The track you mentioned, Pulling on a Line, sets it aside from some earlier stuff. Definitely more rockin'. But the harmonies are identical to earlier work and tracks like "New Light" and "Rivers Edge" could have easier been on Ongiara or the first disc. Probably a little more to separate it from previous work than Hayden or Wilco but not by much, though enough, I guess to make me own it and to have listened to it in full a few times, something I can't and likely won't be able to say for the other two. So take that. Or you're right. Sorry, this fence hurts from all the straddling. And where are all those porn links?

Would agree with Wilco (also from a couple of quick samples) and Hayden, but not Great Lake Swimmers. I think this time around they've taken their typical dreamy sound (which I've often found listless rather than ethereal) and added some oomph with poppier, tighter arrangements, which for me completely brought them to life (for old fans, I can hear the cries of "sell out"). They've always relied on the singer's unique voice, and for the first time I would say the songs justify it. I would put "Pulling on a Line" and "She Comes to Me in Dreams" among my favourite tracks of the year.

Also liked "One Day in Your Life"....listened to some more of the recent stuff via youtube and I'm not quite sold on it, I'm afraid. Were they to put out an album this year, I'm not certain it would make Spin magazine's 20 Best Albums of 2009 so far.

Seem like an odd thing to write? Not if you're trying to segue into linking to Spin magazine's 20 Best Albums of 2009 so far.

Not sure I'd agree with all the selections but there are a few there that I have been digging a lot this year. Notice that Wilco appears, perhaps obligatorily, on the list. Has anyone listened to their latest? I heard a few tracks and wasn't all that impressed. Kind of the same response I had when I sampled some of the latest Hayden disc on emusic....very little to distinguish this music from previous releases. In some cases, this is a good thing. In Neko Cases (groan), for example, where her latest sounds very much like her last two but that's kind of okay with me. In the forementioned Hayden or Great Lakes Swimmers discs, it's a little bit monotonous.

Do you have any formerly cherished artists whose non-varied output causes you to stop listening to any new material? Do you like/hate with the intensity of a thousand burning suns/not give a shit about the Spin list? Will Stuart ever make an appearance here or will his bullshit excuse of a broken collar bone keep him off these boards for another few weeks? Discuss. Speculate. Post links to porn, etc.

Nice...I quite like that song, but am also surprised that 54 40 was still a thing in the 00's (and still is a thing). I liked them in the 80's for a while - the other big single I think of from the good old days is "Baby Ran" - and they had some Canadian hits in the guitar-crazed 90's (Nice to Love You e.g.). So I have their first couple of records, though they're never quite as good when I put them on as I think they will be. Note: I'm concerned that sounded Derek-like in its lack of enthusiasm.

Not sure why 54.40 never quite got their due. The Hootie cover was, of course, a travesty but the original 'I Go Blind' was definitely among my faves from the 80s; i remember first hearing it on poorly recorded cassette on a portable ghetto blaster at the back of the school bus in high school, and just loving it.

I think they did have a bit of following, at least in the late 80s and 1987's 'Show Me' stands out as their best, imo, but I didn't realize they were still putting out stuff in the late 90s, early 00s. Indeed, a glance at allmusic shows that they've put out 4 records this decade. Egads! Will have to get reacquainted with a few of these. Thanks for adding this vid.

Unrelated to the best of the 00s but related to recent discussions about the decline of the album, rise of the single, it seems that the record labels are hoping to re-energize the format via new technology. I like the idea of an interactive album...certainly would make for a more enjoyable cd club sharing session than printouts/ipod route we've adopted in the last few years (about which I'm not complaining...think i may have advocated it in the first place....just that having liner notes to peruse while listening to the music is a bit of a lost pleasure). Thoughts?

I've figured out a way to get my songs from 20xx into a list that I can manipulate. It was a bit tedious, but it worked. One of the first things that jumped out at me was the song "Unbend" by 54-40 (who appear at the top of the alphabetical list). I had thought that was from the '90s, but a quick check with AMG shows that it was, in fact, 2000. I really like that song. I admit that I don't have the whole "Casual Viewin'" album, but I see that it is only rated 2 1/2 stars on AMG and it doesn't even have a description. I know that Hootie and the Blowfish covered their song "I Go Blind", but apart from that bit of recognition, they don't seem to get a lot of respect. Any thoughts on why that is?

Sadly, a manual process, Mike but one that I add to from time to time. Following your lead, I'm now about 80% on digitizing my music collection. Within Itunes, I setup some smart playlists organized by decade, and I've been scrolling through to uncover hidden/forgotten gems buried in the midst of entire albums worth of mediocrity. I'm sure there are other tools I could be using, particularly ones that would allow me to share with friends or publish to countless social networking sites but for now, I'm content to kick it 90s style with my spreadsheet.

I'd heard and liked some of the Finn Brothers album back in 2004 when it was released but am not all the familiar with Todd Snider, though a quick browse in wikipedia reveals a fairly prolific output this decade so likely some goodies from which to choose.

I've started thinking about my favorites from the decade, but I'm having a tough time getting the information into a format that's easy to work with. You referenced a spreadsheet, Kyle - is that something you're maintaining manually, or do you have some nifty little piece of software that derives lists of songs from folders full of files? In the meantime, here are a couple of songs that are bound to find a spot on my list:

Yeah, looking at my growing spreadsheet of song and album selections for the 2000s, there are a number of shoegazer-ish (post-shoegazer?) entries, including:

"Drain Cosmetics" - Serena Maneesh (2006)



and

"Runs Into Flowers" - M83 (2003)



You guessed correctly, Bri, when you noted that most of us were keeping some of our top selections hidden until later in the year. In fact, Stuart has been so hush hush that he's avoiding posting altogether. But this last M83 song will likely figure close to, if not in, my top 10. 'Soaring' is one adjective I'd use for it.

Hey Kyle, meant to say earlier that "Fallen Angel" is one of my favourite songs of the decade. Sort of a cool update on shoegazer with added bombast and melody. Just an awesome song.

Derek, I would appluad some of your choices too if you weren't so darn mean.

Brian, stop posting stuff that doesn't speak to Derek!

As for where we all agree, will third Badly Drawn, which will likely be in my top 10 as well. The soundtrack for About a Boy had some moments but the rest hasn't done much for me at all.

Here's another goodie from that disc.

Pretty funny Brian. You keep picking discs of bands that I own and have yet (maybe never) to find a place anywhere close to albums that have a meaningful place in my life. First the Microphones and now New Buffalo. You hedged your bet with respect to which album of hers you would choose but having owned her first album I never felt the need to own another. Feist-lite if you will.

As for Badly Drawn Boy let me be the first to reveal my hand and say without reservation that this is on my top 10 list. An album that no matter how often I go back to and how long it's been since the last listen still finds new ways to ingratiate itself with me. Brilliant album, almost a better show at the Opera House and never approached since in his subsequent output.

I'm much enjoying this preview process, though I suspect there are cards being held close to chests in terms of top tens. Which is the way it should be. To continue therefore:

Among my favourite of the veritable cornucopia of hushed female popsters that have emerged in the decade (like, can you say CBC Radio 2 morning show?), and within one dimension at least have defined the sound of the "noughts", my favourite is I think New Buffalo, a one-woman band - Sally Seltmann - with a difficult-to-pin-down mix of acoustic and synthetic instruments/arrangements, beautiful melodies and wonderful lyrics. I haven't decided which of her two albums I like better. This cut is off of Somewhere Anywhere, her second.

A far less obscure choice, and I'm comfortable saying will likely be on other long lists - if not top tens - is Badly Drawn Boy, Damon Gough's nom de plume for his chamber pop band whose first record, the Hour of Bewilderbeast, was a stunner, and whose subsequent output hasn't measured up nearly as well. We all (I think) know the music well, so feel free to imagine your favourite track instead of this one (though it's a goody).

I bet Mike and Stuart's kids would feel a whole lot more responsive if they could see the pics that you tried to upload, Derek. Hopefully, it wasn't a shot of Michael Jackson.

As for your picks, I think both the Beck and Flaming Lips albums you mentioned will be on my list, likely in the top 30 or 20, and interesting that you should put these two together as their double-bill concert was one that I enjoyed a few years back when they came to Massey Hall. The only disappointment was that 4 songs in, the Flaming Lips, who were opening, had some technical/sound problems that ended up cutting their set short. They did a few accapella versions of some songs but didn't get to 'Are You a Hypnotist', which wouldn't have really translated well without the complete production. Still think I prefer their 1999 (read: ineligible for nomination for this decade) disc "The Soft Bulletin" but "Yoshimi" has some pretty great moments as well, as you've duly noted.

Also dig the Microphones disc, which I only discovered last year and will likely include on my list. As for your omission of Arcade Fire, Bri, I was going to file this under 'deliberately provocative on an unconscious level, despite implied sincerity' but then recalled that you never were on board this particular train. Both discs will likely hit the top of my list so I'll have to either have to make a compelling case for its greatness when the complete list is unveiled or simply make a derisive comment on your artistic sensibility (likely the easier route but we'll see what my time is like around December).

For now, two more additions:

Madvillain - Madvillainy (2004)

Madvillian is less a group than a collaboration between producer Madlib (the music) and MF Doom (the lyrics and vocals). Though the tracks sometimes come to an abrupt end just as they're getting interesting, the clever word play, rhymes, use of music samples and what sounds like mid-20th century radio programs, make this an engaging listen from start to finish. For those not sold on the more commercial sound of someone like a Kanye or Common, this might be a good foray into the genre.



Elbow - Cast of Thousands (2003)

Really beautiful English atmospheric pop, with nods to Radiohead and Catherine Wheel. This album ranges emotionally and lyrically between being caustic and soothing, hopeful and deeply cynical. Some songs build into soaring, anthemic choruses, at times accompanied by full choir, while others use little more than a piano and quiet, pained vocals to sad yet beautiful effect. What I would have hoped Coldplay's future releases would have sounded like after 'Don't Panic' and 'Yellow'.

Video here as they've disabled embedding.

Side 2 gems from the last two albums I mentioned in my previous post, Beck's "Sunday Sun" (track #10) and the Flaming Lips' "Are You a Hypnotist" (track #7). Obviously something to be said for still listening to a record in its entirety. We're probably a dying breed but if an artist gives us 50 plus minutes of music shouldn't we feel obligated to listen to the whole thing? Mike and Stuart how do your kids feel about this?

Wow, Stuart nailed that. Looks like Brian sounds like Spoon. Pretty good song although I'm not sure I need to see a band from the Peg on a best of the decade list.

As for the Microphone's I will have to check out that disc. I own their previous disc 2000's "It Was Hot We Stayed in the Water" (pretty good album title) and the only truly memorable track was the 11 minute "Glow" (part 1 I guess).

Keeping with the cancon bent of Brian's selections I will put forth Destroyer's 2001 disc "Streethawk: A Seduction". Since it had a very 70's (Bowie, Drake) feel to it anyway this is an album that has aged well. Might be the key to any great record, not sounding like everything else that comes down the pike during the same period. Joanna Newsom's "Ys" either confirms or blows that theory to kingdom come depending on how you feel about our harp playing friend.

From the following year, 2002, Beck's "Sea change" is an album that I might have bypassed completely if I had listened solely to the critics. Stuart set me straight on this one and I picked it up at Soundscapes on my way to New Zealand for my year long soujourn. Part of the reason for selling house and packing up for the big adventure was my imminent 40th birthday and this album lived with me for the whole time I was gone as it suited my melancholy mindset to a T.

This album and the Flaming Lip's "Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots", another favourite of the decade, were on constant rotation during my year off and for me they have a similar vibe. Artists baring their soul, one on a very personal scale and the Lips' almost on a planetary scale. Both great albums for contemplating your small place on this big planet.

He is startlingly handsome isn't he?

well I always knew you were narcisstic Brian but this goes too far. To insert yourself into that video by Novillero the Hypothesist... (that you just recommended below)... is something else... and if it isnt really you he sure looks like you so the critism still stands...

Hey Kyle,

Back to your post on the best of the 2000's, I salute your ambition to find 100 albums, if not the take-up from the rest of the gang (or indeed your own follow through after the first two, ha). Just to re-start the ball on this, I have put together a very prelim list (let's call it the Long List) of favourite albums, numbering about forty. Includes Jose Gonzalez, so good thought there. Doesn't include, incidentally, either Radiohead or Arcade Fire (let's get a little debate going here people). I DO hope it doesn't harm their sales when the word gets out about BD not endorsing them.

I'll throw out a couple to try to stir the creative juices:

Something by the Microphones off of their 2001 album The Glow Pt 2. This one's called The Moon.

And this one from Winnipeg's Novillero - from 2005's Aim Right for the Holes in Their Lives - a fave of mine called The Hypothesist.

Not to focus on the wrong thing, but wow - was that '70s TV show clip lame! How did anybody ever get that project green-lighted? I guess in the pre-Internet days, the prospect of having an attractive woman run around in a short dress was compelling enough.

If you're reading these posts today, Mike, and wondering if the Isis reference means that I played a long lost Saturday morning tv clip from the 1970s, unfortunately, no. I did, however, share a story about the perils of assuming that a 30-second sound clip is representative of an entire song.

Quite happy to come out of the closet where the National are concerned.

Brian, you did forget my favourite music played last night, well at least the story that accompanied it and that was Kyle's "Isis".

I like how these are listed by round...think it helps me remember each artist more better by associating them with what I was drinking/shoving into my mouth at the time; i.e. if it was beemster cheese, which i enjoyed early in the night when i was also enjoying that lovely xylophone jazz piece....so that was...Walt Dickerson!

Thanks for hosting, Bri. Kudos to Marc for the tech support. And to Stuart, for convincing Derek that he has always loved the National all along.

thanks for a great night there Brian, and for posting those cuts so quickly ..it looks good except you neglected to indicate that I had the best selections of the evening...

Tonight's Playlist:

Round One

Derek - Terry Callier - Occasional Rain (1972)

Stuart - "Dark was the Night" compilation, featuring The National, My Brightest Diamond, Bon Iver

Kyle - Woods - Songs of Shame

Brian - Walt Dickerson - a selection from "This is Walt Dickerson" and "To My Queen" (early 60's)

Round Two

Derek - Neko Case - Middle Cyclone

Stuart - Ladyhawke - Delirium

Kyle - LCD Soundsystem - 45 and 33

Brian - Tapes N Tapes - The Loon

Round Three

Derek - The Handsome Furs - Face Control

Stuart - The Flowers of Hell

Kyle - Viva Voce - Rose City

Brian - White Rabbits - It's Frightening

Round Four

Derek - Pink Mountaintops - Outside Love

Kyle - Dirty Projector - Bitte Orca

Stuart - Fever Ray. Fever Ray. Fever. Ray.

Brian - Mary Halvorson Trio meets Cymbals Eats Guitars

Marc leaves.

Round Five

Derek - Elbow - Seldom Seen Kid

Stuart - Fanfarlo - Fire Escape

Kyle - Menahan Street Band - Make the Road by Walking

Brian - Sparks - This Town and Amateur Hour

Stagger stagger stagger...the night ends.

Okay, time to stop dawdling and start posting again. Following up on Derek's suggestion from a few weeks back, that we begin sharing our picks for 'Best of the 00s' (some describe this decade as the "naughts" but this to me sounds decidedly grandpa-ish). With that in mind, I'd like to put forward two nominees from earlier in the decade to discuss/share/debate.

"Rose Rouge" - St. Germain, from Tourist (2000)



If you ate at a restaurant in any urban setting on earth from 2001 to 2005, you likely heard this album playing in the background, either before or Bebel Gilberto's Tanto Tempo. That's really no reason to slag either discs, both of which are really all about establishing a more sublter, nightclub cool.

"Tourist" fuses jazz elements (mostly horns and flutes) with house beats to create a kind of dance space for adults. There are a few quieter tracks to balance out the album as well as the more groovier, bass-heavy tracks like the one above as well as well placed latin influences (see tracks 'So Flute' and 'Latin Note') that make this album a varied, satisfying listen.

In a completely different direction, I'll also nominate Jose Gonzalez Veneer (2005). This Swedish singer-songwriter (Argentinian background) appears on a few Zero 7 records, but this first solo effort stands out the most for me. There's a very warm vocal quality that recalls Nick Drake at times but it's mostly the combination of the vocals, the sweetness of the lyrics, and the very deliberate, almost overplucked guitar strumming that really resonates.



Will add a few new ones every week or so. As for my list of albums, think I should be able to get to 100 and maybe 100 songs as well. Looking forward to reading/hearing yours.

Ive been at a conference for 2 days so I was unable to respond, though i can see the comments I cant access the comments on my blackberry. So in short i was unable to come dashing to the defence of Jackson Brown ...As Mike pointed out Brian, Your enthusian was tepid at best, i sure hope I dont need you to describe my best asetts to others in the future...( well yes ,you know, I wouldnt say Stuart is uninteresting, and hes not really dull usually but etc...)
at any rate Running On Empty with the aforementioned "load out song " was an anchor record for me and still is.. I also love his first record (saturated) very much which has doctor my eyes on it as the single but it very solid throughout almost as good as runni9ng on empty. I then branched out to the raved about record at the time (this was late seventies) Pretender which frankly was very dull. I then gave up on looking furhter until a few years ago.

A few years ago I discovered Lucinda Williams back catalogue to be fantastic. I hated Car wheels on broken gravel which all the critics adored , so i never looked at her early work after that disapointment. i then saw her live opening for Neil at the ACC and then I went and found that all her other albums were very good, it was just car wheels that sucked. This eurka moment has made me go back to assess some earlier major artisits that I had given up on and jackson browne is one of them.
I have picked up all the albums you mention Brian and I agree they are great sat afternoon music. Most heartily recommended...
I will also second Something Anything by Todd Rundgrin, A long cherished record of mine too.
I gave another green world by Eno from late seventies which I like well enough and listen too semi regularly, but it is not essential listening for me..

Fair enough.   I didn't really imagine Jackson Browne would be a life changer for any of you, more curiosity on my part.   Though Mike I think he is in your wheelhouse.  Haven't heard from Stuart and he has a pretty big appetite for earnest 70's music, so I'll hold out a modicum of hope for a kindred spirit there.  

While I'm thinking of it, who among you have explored Brian Eno's 70's music? His first four or five records are, in turn, very different and uniformly outstanding (if that makes any sense).   Here's a lovely song from Before and After Science.

I've heard nothing but raves about the Leonard Cohen tour - I somehow thought Mike that you had seen him on this tour, I guess not.   I had always ignored Lenny (that damn stubbornness again) but in the past year have spent a fair bit of time listening to his first few records - which are remarkable as I'm sure you all know.  I'm esp. fond of this one (and, it's a nice impressionistic home made - I assume -  vid).

Re the Nazz, pretty sure I'd remember hearing that at Blow Up, inebriation notwithstanding, though they sure belonged there.    That's a fun song - the drummer must have been exhausted at the end of it.  As far as Todd, I'd say you want to start with the big hit record Something Anything.   Though he was prolific and pretty uneven in his solo recording, and I only know his early period stuff.      Interestingly, he is indeed born in the same year as Jackson Browne, and sported that same stringy long-haired look as JB.  Hmm.  It's almost eery.... Of course, everyone in 1971 looked like that.   I know I did.    Kyle wasn't born yet.

 

Jackson Browne seems like the sort of artist that I would have been interested in, but I've never really delved into his music.  Like James Taylor, I've always been aware of him, but never been interested enough to give him a serious listen.  I did like "The Loadout" when I first heard it, and he had a song in the mid '80s called (I think) "For America" which I liked, but I never bothered to dig any deeper.  I haven't heard any of the songs on the album that you referenced, Brian.  And your hesitant and qualified testimonial hasn't convinced me to run out and buy it yet.  I definitely agree that his excessively earnest delivery is off-putting.

I do have some Pogues records, and I still enjoy listening to them.  My daughter has recently become a fan of theirs, having discovered them through some latter day Irish folk-punk bands that she and her friends listen to (the names all escape me at the moment).  

To introduce another name into the conversation, I just watched Lenoard Cohen's "Live in London" DVD.  It's really a remarkable performance - he's doing 3 hour long shows at the age of 75!  And I really like the arrangements of his songs.  He referred to his bass player as the musical director, so I assume he had a lot to do with it.  There are lots of different voices and instruments, and they all interweave and slip in and out of the mix in a very appealing way.  And Cohen's voice, which was always rather dead sounding to me, seems to have taken on a deeper resonance and nicer tone as he's aged.  I really enjoyed the concert (on DVD - tickets for the recent live show were sold out almost immediately amidst much bitching about Ticketmaster).  

I'm not likely to get in to Jackson Browne any time soon and given my advanced state of decay you can read that as never. But given how much I'm enjoying The Nazz, a band Brian brought to my attention, I figure I should ask if there is a particular Todd Rundgren album or two that I should seek out. Rundgren was an obvious contemporary of Browne's but until Utopia came along I wasn't really aware of his previous solo work and didn't find out about the Nazz until 30 years later.

And a final question primarily directed Mr. Doyle's way did they ever play the Nazz's "Under the Ice" at the Elmo's Blow Up and if not why not. It truly rocks.

Kyle, you're showing your age buddy on Jackson. Or relative lack of it I guess. I've always found him mildly annoying - so earnest and idealistic and baby faced - until recently. And I'm still not convinced he's my thing, there's a problematic sameness to his music, other than the big singles, but the overall vibe is somehow working better for me now.

My only reference point for Jackson Browne is a mid-80s song that featured then-girlfriend (his, not mine, to clarify) Daryl Hannah in the video. Something about depending on me. I could easily look up and post the youtube video but it's not worth the keystrokes.

I also won't post a clip that a university friend emailed me recently of a toothless shane mcgowan performing 'Fairytale...' live sometime in the past few years. Not because I don't think that the song and the emotional performance are worthwhile, but because it was kind of difficult to watch someone in such a deteriorated state. We've talked a bit in the past about the poetic nature of suffering in music, particularly when it comes to some (most?) jazz greats, but watching it unfold before you in documentary or online video instantly takes the romance out of that notion.

Hoping to discuss further on June 18th...any chance of a child-sports-related reason to journey to Toronto on that date, Mike?

Greetings.  I've been struggling to find my blogging muse recently, so have decided to break out of this torpor by posting about a couple of pretty inconsequential things.     Firstly, I recently watched a doc about ex-Pogue Shane MacGowan called "If I Should Fall from Grace with God".  I was a big fan of the band in the 80's, saw them twice at the Masonic Temple (great shows, despite the forthcoming comment), and so wasn't too surprised when many years ago they booted out Shane for his alcoholism - famous for his drunkenness, and unable to stand up at the second performance we went to - but hadn't been aware of this film, which was made back in 2001, until a colleague at work mentioned it to me.    It's pretty hard watching at times, since Shane has apparently deteriorated in the ten years since he'd been in the public eye, and is still drinking straight from the bottle every day.  But it's also a pretty good telling of the story of the Pogues, and incorporates, as you might expect, a lot of their best music, some great live clips, and interviews with a few band members.    I've since gone back and listened to some of those great records, and for those among us (if there are any) who haven't heard anything other than a few numbers, I would recommend starting with the second and third records  "Rum Sodomy and the Lash", and the next one, the eponymous film title.   I was reminded upon re-listening me what a top-notch song-writer MacGowan was, and what an excellent group of musicians the Pogues were.  A Pair of Brown Eyes would have to make my list of fave songs of the 80's (were I to do one this week - ha).

My second note is on Jackson Browne.  Now here is a guy I thought I had no affinity for.  Sure I quite enjoyed Running on Empty and Doctor My Eyes as radio staples when I was in my early teens, but they never made enough of a connection with me to spend anything more than a passing listen or two with the albums.   He was a foundational element of that whole So Cal singer songwriter scene that I - in my twenties - dismissed as a soft, cocaine-addled Hollywoodization of what had been a great movement in the late sixties.   And his music in the eighties (as was typical of so many 70's giants), when I was listening more carefully, was over-produced and boring.    Can't recall what prompted me to go back and try him again, perhaps just an idle interest, or a radio spot, or the remembrance in the back of my head that he had written a few tracks on Nico's Chelsea Girl (they dated when he was 18, and she 29), but regardless, in the past few months I've bt'd a few of his early records - the self-titled debut, Too Late for the Sky, and For Everyman.    This is music that's not right in my wheelhouse, being very sincere, cleanly produced (overly so), and concerned primarily with relationships.  Also very straightforward musically - all within the standard four/five chord structure.    Having said that, I've found it to be a very rewarding listen, and improving with time, particularly Too Late for the Sky.    Very intelligent lyrically and played with passion.  And David Lindley's guitar work is extraordinary.  Overall a great middle-of-the-afternoon-on-a-weekend vibe.  Arguably just a further indication that I'm getting old, or that some of my adolescent pig-headedness  is finally wearing off.   I've definitely found myself able to enjoy this style of music in the past year - Joni Mitchell, Bill Withers, Roberta Flack, among others.    Frankly I'm still in shock.  

Any of you (I'm thinking Mike and Stuart but surprise me) loved JB before?  Or prepared to re-visit him based on my renewed enthusiasm?

wow, I had missed that....Really crappy....I agree that Wilco has not been as great since he has left. hard to say wether that is because of his missed contributions or if the band had just naturally peaked and was going to come down anyways, but I think it more likely the former. The current band sound is definately 2 dimensional now and his varied musicianship combined with his songwritting abilities as well as his ability to criticise Tweedy directly and increasingly indirectly must surely have been positive creative factors for the band. After watching that movie I doubt anyone in the current band cricticises the new Wilco material much as it is being developed. With myself being in a creative partnership and similarily with the other partner being the primary name, I know how difficult his footsteps had to be......
a sad day indeed.......

I was also reading some of the articles this morning re Jay Bennett. It is indeed very sad as he appeared to be a very passionate and committed musician who as you said Kyle contributed to several great Wilco records. His voice was also a great foil for Tweedy's. I'm not sure they've been the same since his departure.

Speaking of great albums like Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, Brian and I have had a few conversations lately re the fast approaching end of the noughts (or whatever this decade has been called) and were thinking that sometime in the latter half of 2009 we should get together for a retrospective CD club where we can listen to what we thought were the best of the last 10 years. Not as easy as it might have been for previous decades probably because our lives at this stage don't entirely revolve around seeing live shows and listening to and talking about nothing but music.

Don't give up on your Paste subscriptions just yet, Mike. Not sure that it's enough to entice a new subscriber but should provide some comfort if you've already shelled out some caja.

Very sad news out of Illinois yesterday about a former member of Wilco. Not sure if all of you have seen I am trying to break your heart, the documentary about the making of Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, but the tension between Bennett and Tweedy was even more compelling than the drama surrounding the record company contracts. Loved the first three Wilco discs, of which Bennett was a key contributor, and also downloaded and enjoyed some of his solo stuff as well. Always upsetting when somebody talented dies at a relatively young age, in what appears to be suicide. Must raise a glass to him soon. RIP.

What a coincidence! No sooner did I hit send on my previous post, when I received a message from Paste magazine with the subject "The Campaign to Save Paste"! So be forewarned - the magazine is struggling, and a subscription to their VIP club might not be the most prudent investment you've ever made...

I'm glad we've returned to music. I was feeling guilty for introducing the Family Ties theme that threatened to turn this into a retro-TV blog.

I've been listening quite happily to CBC Radio 2 during my commutes both in the morning and at night. There is more music than talk, and no commercials. It is the commericals that drive me crazy - my evening commute generally takes me across the 6 o'clock mark when radio 2 switches to a jazz show, and it usually loses my interest within a couple of songs. At that point I start flipping around the few Ottawa commercial radio stations that could conceivably play a song that I like. I end up hearing a few fragments of good songs, but I can't bear to listen to the endless commercials in between them, so I change channels restlessly. I also change when I hear a song that I don't like, or a song that I've heard too often, or a song that I'm just not in the mood for. I think that satellite radio would be perfect for me, if I weren't far too cheap to pay for it.

Another approach - which I may take - would be to get one of those gadgets that will pipe my ipod through my car stereo. Then I could load up my ipod with the newest batch of songs that I've downloaded (mine will take about 1,000 at a time), and listen to those while I'm commuting.

Speaking of downloading music, have any of you heard of or tried the Paste VIP club? For $6 each month you get an album by an up-and-coming band, a sampler of songs from various artists, 4 songs "live from the Paste studio" recorded by some of these same artists, an occasional DVD sampler (4 per year), an occasional bonus disk (about 4 per year as well) and access to their digital magazine. You can see a track list from their latest sampler to get an idea of the kind of music Paste focuses on.


Mike

least funniest on the show was skippy, the next door neighbour, who i mostly just wanted to punch in the face. but you mentioned satellite radio...

I find it a mixed bag really. I enjoyed the access to the great national public radio programming in the US, which tends to steer clear of the wholly unjustified smug self-amused tone and lame attempts at humour that infects most CBC programming. And four different types of alternative music stations meant I could skip from 90s grunge to 80s new wave to some 'must have just been profiled on pitchfork' stuff. And satellite kicks the living bejeezus out of any commercial radio station in Toronto, which could very well offer the worst radio options of any city in North America, though this is a topic for another day.

But there's something a little overwhelming about having 200+ choices. Even when I was really digging an old Joe Jackson song I hadn't remembered existed or I got to hear a new Peter Bjorn and John song that sounded interesting but actually didn't sound like any of their previous stuff but I knew it was them because I could click on an info button and it told me all the details...even then, I couldn't help but wonder if I was missing something even more interesting or fond memory-inducing on another channel. And if a song came on that didn't immediately grab me, I quickly switched to another channel. Guess my point is that satellite radio only served to decrease my already very short attention span.

Other 'But...' question: it worth the X$/month? If, god forbid, I ever had to commute into the city for work from the suburbs, I would gladly shell out the monthly fee. If I was driving from high park to summerhill everyday, though, I'd save my dosh (or invest it in red wine).

i remember that episode Kyle, fantastic... I think the father on that show was by far the funniest. I dont think he really got emnough credit, his timing and delivery were perfect....
I also completely agree with you on Patrick Sexsmith Watson....
I get satellite radio free on my next car (my current lease expires soon) so it will be interesting to see how good (or bad) it is. i will let you know...

I'm sure I'd still enjoy the episode where the Keaton parents return home to full-on homecoming party featuring a kangaroo in their livingroom. The father's line and its delivery were fantastic: "Parents expect some unpleasantry when they leave their kids at home for the weekend. A cracked dish. A stain on the carpet. There was a kangaroo in our living room....."

Also, Derek did mention Babe, which I happened to hear on satellite radio yesterday while driving a rental car. Yes, there are folks out there who shell out a monthly fee for Styx. Yowsa.

Btw...anyone listen to the new Patrick Watson disc? My father-in-law was raving about it on the weekend. I've liked his last two but kind of get the feeling that this might be one of those artists who fall into the 'if you have two of their discs you really don't need anymore' category? I'm thinking of other Cdn artists like Ron Sexsmith and Rufus Wainwright category-wise.

Styx! That reminds me - we forget to mention Babe...

It's funny how that works - I remember really enjoying "Family Ties" back in my early to mid twenties. Caroline and I used to watch it religiously on Thursday nights before I headed out to my weekly hockey game. I've since since an occasional episode, and I've been surprised at how terrible it is. Apart from Michael J. Fox's appealing caricature, there is nothing to recommend that show. And even that wears thin fast. Still, I don't think there's a point in beating oneself up over these things. It's all about time and place, and stage of life. There's no point in trying to go back, but there's also no need to be ashamed of all of those points along the way. The intriguing thing to me is to look ahead and wonder what I'm enjoying now that is going to seem completely unbearable to my future self.

My daughter is reading this book which is a new teenager fiction author and she mentioned that one of the charcters names is Loreli....well of course I had to mention that I loved this album by Styx (equinox) that has a song by that name....so I put it on for the first time in about a quarter of a century expecting to have a beautiful nostalgic moment but OMG as they say...
This is the worst song with the worst lyrics ever.... its about this girl moving in with him....My daughter mocked me mercylessly for listening to this stuff. I must say I was surprised at how bad it was, because, I mean hell ,I still like John Denver, but somehow this really not aging well at all....

no need to be so harsh bri. after all, stuart did spell baby correctly each time... give him points for that at least.

agree that the topics are thin these days so i'll ask the group to throw something out there.

in the meantime, i've been enjoying the new pitchfork redesign and some of the new song/video features. for one of the most interesting covers i've heard in awhile (wait until the guitars kick in), i direct you to the flaming lips version of madonna's borderline.